Michael Arkush, Author of "Golf 100", Afterhours
This episode delves into the intriguing discourse surrounding Michael Arkush's recently published work, "Golf 100," which presents a meticulously curated ranking of the greatest players in golf history. We engage in a detailed examination of the rationale behind each player's placement, acknowledging that listeners may find discrepancies with the rankings, yet we emphasize the thoughtful analysis and research that underpins the selections. Our conversation traverses the evolution of the sport, touching upon the accessibility of professional golfers and the disconnect that has arisen between athletes and their fan base. Furthermore, we contemplate the future of amateur golf, advocating for increased visibility and accessibility to enhance public engagement with the sport. Ultimately, this dialogue serves as a platform for passionate debate, inviting listeners to reflect on their own perspectives regarding the game's esteemed figures.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Painted Hills Natural Beef
- Amazon
- Penguin Random House
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcript
Welcome to Grilling at the Green After Hours.
Speaker A:The conversation that took place after the show ended.
Speaker A:Hi, everybody, it's JT and this is a special version of Grilling at the Green.
Speaker A:Grilling at the Green is brought to you in part by Painted Hills Natural Beef.
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Speaker A:That's Painted Hills Natural Beef.
Speaker A:Hey, everybody.
Speaker A:Welcome to After Hours here on Grilling at the green.
Speaker A:I'm J.T.
Speaker A:i'm with Michael Arkesh today.
Speaker A:His top 100, the greatest players ranking of the greatest golf greatest players of all time.
Speaker A:Fascinating read.
Speaker A:I'm guaranteeing you that you probably will not agree with every placement that Michael did, but he has a science behind it and it's a lot of fun to read like that.
Speaker A:Is there people that you thought could have been in the, you know, the 90 to 100 ranking, 105, somewhere in there if you went that high but didn't make it?
Speaker B:Well, yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, you should see me, Jeff, at the, at the British, watching the British Open last year, the final two rounds, because I had all these different scenarios depending on who were the to who's going to win, who would get into the list.
Speaker B:Scotty Scheffler, John Rom, Justin Thomas, Adam Scott, guys who are right on the verge of it.
Speaker B:So it was, it was very close.
Speaker B:And I'm surprised in a way that Scotty didn't make it.
Speaker B:I'm sorry.
Speaker B:Colin Montgomery is somebody I know people are going to find curious that he's not in there.
Speaker B:8 European tour of order merit titles, tremendous player, but he never won a PGA Tour event.
Speaker B:Not alone a loan, a major.
Speaker B:So he's not in.
Speaker B:Tommy Bolt was a great player.
Speaker B:Just because somebody didn't make the top 100 doesn't mean they weren't a great player.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, oh, absolutely.
Speaker A:But, you know, people are going to.
Speaker A:Well, this is actually good around the dinner table or around the bar stool.
Speaker A:Fodder in your book that you can you, you've got the facts there.
Speaker A:And I think that's what's interesting about it, too.
Speaker A:You did the research and all that.
Speaker A:You got the facts.
Speaker A:But I know some people that absolutely.
Speaker A:Hogan was the best guy ever.
Speaker A:He didn't win as much, but he was the best golfer ever.
Speaker A:Like that.
Speaker A:And then others are, Bobby Jones or, you know, Nancy Lopez was better than Annika, like that.
Speaker A:So it's.
Speaker A:Golf's always open to interpretation.
Speaker A:Except the damn.
Speaker B:Don't forget Harry Varden.
Speaker B:You know how great Harry Varden was in the, you know, 19th century and early 20th century.
Speaker B:Almost won the U.S.
Speaker B:open at the age of 50.
Speaker B:There.
Speaker B:There have been a lot of incredible players, no doubt about it.
Speaker B:But you're right.
Speaker B:It's all about.
Speaker B:People say Tiger, Jack, Jones or Hogan.
Speaker B:I don't think anybody really any.
Speaker B:Thinks anyone else would be possible, number one.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And Arnold would bringing.
Speaker A:Be bringing up, like, position five or six or something like that?
Speaker B:He's five.
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay, so, Michael, I do this little thing called the lightning round.
Speaker A:This is not about your book.
Speaker A:This is just kind of irreverent questions that we get.
Speaker A:We get more information from Michael so people know what you really think.
Speaker A:Are you ready?
Speaker B:Go for it.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:If you could play around a golf with one of your golfing heroes, who would it be?
Speaker B:Bobby Jones.
Speaker A:Okay, we talked about this in the regular show.
Speaker A:Do you think the professional golf is getting further removed from everyday golfers?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:I'm amazed at how many people are just sort of soured on the game because of the controversy going on now.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:They stepped in a puddle right there.
Speaker A:That's for sure.
Speaker A:Who is the biggest influence on you personally in your life, or maybe in your golf game, but in your life in particular?
Speaker B:I have a history professor who is a university professor in upstate New York who taught me during high school, who's now 84 years old, and he and I talk fairly regularly about events in the world.
Speaker B:And he.
Speaker B:He made me understand the value of history.
Speaker B:He made me love history, and I will always be grateful to him.
Speaker A:Good, good, good.
Speaker A:If you could get a lesson, Michael, from one touring pro, who would it be?
Speaker B:Rory.
Speaker A:Yeah, he's.
Speaker A:I like that kid.
Speaker A:You know, it's kind of tough when we're our age and you get to call everybody kids, and Even though they're 40 years old, you say you're a kid.
Speaker A:If you were declared supreme ruler of golf for one day, what would you decree as supreme ruler?
Speaker B:I would get rid of the FedEx Cup.
Speaker B:I would also end the season in August at an iconic golf course that people are connected to and can love watching.
Speaker A:I like that.
Speaker A:I think we do, our being media guys, I think the Tour does a great disservice to professional golf.
Speaker A:When the last major is in July, you know, like that.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:I used to love it when it was, of course, the master set everything off, and then you went on and on, and then you could always see the Open, you know, into June 1st part of July, and you did all that stuff, and it kind of strung it all out.
Speaker B:And then the golf doesn't have a fitting climax.
Speaker B:Every other sport crowns a champion at the end.
Speaker B:And golf, I don't think.
Speaker B:I don't think it's scintillating enough to have the money being what leads to a championship.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:In your perspective, Michael, how have things changed since you started covering golf in the golf industry and the players, etc.
Speaker B:Well, we talked about the access.
Speaker B:It's harder to go and get the access you want with a player.
Speaker B:Used to be much, much easier.
Speaker B:And I think that that's what fans so much love about golfers is that they seem accessible.
Speaker B:How close we can get.
Speaker B:You can be, you know, sitting on a green, like, right next to the guy or when he gets into the trouble in the woods.
Speaker B:And I feel like there's now too much distance between the player and the fans and I and the player in the media, and I think that that's a shame.
Speaker A:You know, with the Ladies Tour, it's not as bad.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:You know, they're far more accessible.
Speaker A:What's.
Speaker A:Besides stuff you've written?
Speaker A:Do you have a favorite golf book?
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I love Final Rounds.
Speaker B:My friend Jim Dotson.
Speaker B:I have to say, it's a beautiful book.
Speaker B:It talks about a love between a son and a father and so much more.
Speaker B:It's an incredible book.
Speaker B:I'm totally biased because Jim's a very, very good friend of Min, but I could still make the case.
Speaker B:It's an incredible book.
Speaker A:It is an incredible book.
Speaker A:Actually, when I read that book, I didn't know Jim.
Speaker A:And as soon as I read it, I reached out.
Speaker A:He came on the show.
Speaker A:It was right after we started this show, and we became fast friends ever since, so.
Speaker A:And of course, then I went back and read Dew Sweepers and all kinds of stuff there.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:What's the worst tournament you ever covered?
Speaker B:Are you talking about just, like, one.
Speaker B:A tournament that may be a really good tournament?
Speaker B:Just had one bad year.
Speaker A:Yeah, Just.
Speaker A:You have some.
Speaker A:Something was wrong.
Speaker A:Maybe it was just the weather.
Speaker A:Maybe it was the players.
Speaker B:I covered.
Speaker B:I covered the tradition on the Senior tour, the late 90s.
Speaker B:I can't remember exactly what year it is, and I think it was only two rounds because it snowed and we were in Arizona.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:That stands out.
Speaker A:Okay, so what's the dumbest thing you've ever seen while covering a tournament?
Speaker B:Oh, dumbest thing I've ever seen.
Speaker B:I saw somebody pick up a ball and throw it.
Speaker B:I mean, you know, how.
Speaker B:How stupid can you be?
Speaker B:I mean, a fan.
Speaker B:Yeah, right, right.
Speaker A:Up there, like Arnold's ball or somebody, you know, Notable.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:Was.
Speaker B:No, no.
Speaker B:It wasn't somebody.
Speaker B:It wasn't a marquee player.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:I was not right clo.
Speaker B:If I had been right near the person, I might have been able to say something.
Speaker B:But somebody saw it.
Speaker B:Everything was rectified.
Speaker B:It wasn't a rules issue or anything like that, but it was like, got it.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:So if we put your skills to music, Michael, what would the music be?
Speaker B:Fleetwood Mac.
Speaker B:Don't stop thinking about tomorrow.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker A:I like that.
Speaker A:Let me go over here to page two.
Speaker A:And if you could dine with a historical figure, who would it be and what would be on the menu?
Speaker B:I'd like to sit down and have a steak with Winston Churchill.
Speaker A:God, wouldn't that be great?
Speaker B:Mm.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Do you like brandy?
Speaker B:I'm not a big brandy person.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:But if he.
Speaker B:If he offered me a glass of brandy, I don't think I'd say no.
Speaker A:No, no, no.
Speaker A:I would be right there with you.
Speaker A:Do you remember the first time you ever picked up a golf club?
Speaker B:I don't remember the moment, but I do remember where in my life, and it's a whole personal thing.
Speaker B:My father had passed.
Speaker B:I was a kid, and my aunt uncle sort of encouraged me to play and took me to their country club in upstate New York.
Speaker B:So I do remember how drawn I was to the game, but I can't remember the first day I did it.
Speaker A:Well, that's legal.
Speaker A:That's legal.
Speaker A:Michael, if you could erase one mistake from your past, what would it be?
Speaker B:Oh, that's a good one.
Speaker B:Are you talking about any mistake?
Speaker A:Any mistake?
Speaker B:I don't know if I want to get specific about that, but I, I.
Speaker B:We all have those moments of things we say that we wish we hadn't said.
Speaker B:Probably something in that category.
Speaker A:Yeah, I understand.
Speaker B:How about.
Speaker B:How about that for dodging that question?
Speaker A:That's pretty good.
Speaker A:I like that.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'll give you points.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I'll give you FedEx.
Speaker A:Got points for that one.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:I'm third on the list.
Speaker B:Yay.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:If we're going to go back to music for a second, do you remember the worst concert you ever attended?
Speaker B:I've been to some really bad ones.
Speaker B:I usually, like I said before about learning about history before you go somewhere, I usually knew my.
Speaker B:What I was going to see, so I wasn't disappointed.
Speaker B:I remember the first concert I went to that blew me away was in high school.
Speaker B:When I saw Chicago.
Speaker B:And I saw them again a couple of years ago, and it blew my mind that somebody was still, you know, a couple members of the band were still.
Speaker A:Still there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I like it.
Speaker A:What's the biggest change you think should be made?
Speaker A:Number one in pro golf and number two in amateur golf?
Speaker B:In pro golf.
Speaker B:You're talking.
Speaker B:You're not talking about.
Speaker B:Are you talking about the Tour then?
Speaker B:Basically, yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker B:I wouldn't start.
Speaker B:I wouldn't start in Hawaii in January if you.
Speaker B:If I could.
Speaker B:If you had me.
Speaker B:This goes back to commissioner again, being.
Speaker B:I would start the tournament at Pebble.
Speaker B:I would start a tournament where I'm really excited to sit down in front of the TV and watch and have it maybe in first week of February.
Speaker B:And that's.
Speaker B:That's what I would do in pro golf and amateur golf.
Speaker B:I would do everything possible to elevate the status of the amateur, turn the U.S.
Speaker B:amateur again.
Speaker B:I think it's that important.
Speaker A:You know, they, like.
Speaker A:They have senior amateurs.
Speaker A:I think that's the one they're having this year, abandoned.
Speaker A:I don't know if you've been to band, and band is beautiful.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And all that.
Speaker A:It's not accessible very well to the public.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:You know, it was kind of like when they did the Open up at Chambers Bay, and people couldn't really get on the course.
Speaker A:Limited access, that type of thing.
Speaker A:I think if you want to do.
Speaker A:My opinion, if you want to boost amateur golf, you should put it in places that are very accessible to the general public.
Speaker A:Plenty of parking, plenty of resources, food, tents, restrooms, whatever.
Speaker A:I know some of these are iconic courses, but I agree with you.
Speaker A:If we want to raise the amateur level of interest and participation, I think you got to put it in a.
Speaker A:Closer to a metro area.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, I want to.
Speaker B:The risk of sounding like an old fogey, I think it's.
Speaker B:I want us to connect with the history of the game and the courses as much as possible and resist the temptation to, quote, modernize to.
Speaker B:To.
Speaker B:To.
Speaker B:I don't know, coddle to a younger audience.
Speaker B:Audience.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Look at when I first started playing golf and watching golf.
Speaker B:I mean, they were still talking about the tournaments from 30, 40 years ago in the places I drew.
Speaker B:I was drawn into that.
Speaker B:I think a younger generation could be that way as well.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Just a couple more questions here.
Speaker A:Are you consider yourself, Michael, a sweatshirt guy or more of a formal guy sweatshirt?
Speaker B:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:Attaboy.
Speaker A:Attaboy.
Speaker A:What's the worst movie you ever saw?
Speaker B:Boy, oh, boy.
Speaker B:There was something with Dustin Hoffman.
Speaker B:It wasn't Ishtar.
Speaker B:Although that was pretty bad.
Speaker A:That was pretty bad.
Speaker B:It was another.
Speaker B:I can't remember.
Speaker B:I have walked out of.
Speaker B:I used to be a film critic.
Speaker B:Okay, I walked and I didn't walk out of films.
Speaker B:I had a cover.
Speaker B:But I, I'm not somebody if a film is half hour, 40 minutes, it's terrible.
Speaker B:I'm not waiting around.
Speaker A:Okay, yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker A:You know, I.
Speaker A:I covered films when I was in college, writing for a daily.
Speaker A:And the only thing that was good about it was because I was a college student, they'd let me in for free.
Speaker A:And so.
Speaker A:And I could get, you know, cheap hot dogs and stuff like that for dinner because when you.
Speaker A:You never have any money most of the time when you're in college.
Speaker A:So that was.
Speaker A:That was the upside of covering that.
Speaker A:But I got to see some terrible movies.
Speaker A:Couple more things here.
Speaker A:What's one thing you miss about your twenties?
Speaker B:Probably the level of energy, having sort of just nonstop energy.
Speaker B:I mean, that's the toughest thing about getting older is you.
Speaker B:You have the.
Speaker B:You mentally, you want to do it, you're excited about doing it.
Speaker B:You realize when you hit that wall that it's time to take a break.
Speaker B:And I miss when I never had to take a break.
Speaker A:That is true.
Speaker A:That's true.
Speaker A:Last question.
Speaker A:Michael, this is one that usually makes people scratch their heads.
Speaker A:What would be your last meal if you were on death row?
Speaker B:Oh, boy.
Speaker B:Two choices.
Speaker B:Either either steak, as I mentioned earlier, with Churchill, or without, or probably all you can eat Chinese.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:That would probably make me go.
Speaker B:Go nicely.
Speaker A:Well, you know, you don't have to worry about caloric intake at that point.
Speaker A:You can eat as much as you want.
Speaker B:So, so true.
Speaker A:We've been talking with Michael Arkosh.
Speaker A:Excuse me.
Speaker A:His new book, the Golf 100, a spirited ranking of Golf's Greatest Players of All Time.
Speaker A:Real quick, Michael, before you leave, tell the folks again when and where.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:The book is actually going to be released officially on Tuesday, April 1, available bookstores and of course, online on Amazon and on the Penguin Random House website.
Speaker B:You can find it.
Speaker B:I, again, I encourage people to read it and I encourage people to reach out to me and continue the debate.
Speaker B: look and see what happens in: Speaker B:We'll see.
Speaker A:There you go, my clarkers.
Speaker A:Michael, thank you for being with us today.
Speaker A:Michael and I are going to get out of here.
Speaker A:So everybody, as usual, go out, have some fun, play some golf and be kind.
Speaker A:Thank you for listening.
Speaker A:See you next week.
