John Breaker - Birdie Ball - Encore
The salient point of this podcast episode revolves around the innovative strides in the golfing industry, particularly through the lens of Birdie Ball and its creator, John Breaker. We engage in an enlightening discourse regarding the evolution of golf equipment, focusing on the introduction of new products designed to enhance the golfing experience. The discussion highlights the impending launch of the "Putt Up 2.0," a cutting-edge putting green featuring a modular ramp system aimed at simulating varied putting conditions. Additionally, we delve into the complexities of the materials used in the production of golf equipment, underscoring how advancements in polymers and turf technology are reshaping the practice and enjoyment of golf. Throughout our dialogue, we emphasize the importance of innovation in maintaining the integrity and excitement of the game amidst ongoing challenges and changes in the sport.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Painter Hills Natural Beef
- Birdie Ball
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcript
It's time for Grilling at the Green.
Speaker A:Join Jeff Tracy as he explores the golfing lifestyle and tries to keep it in the short grass.
Speaker A:For the hackers, new sweepers and turf spankers, here's Jeff.
Speaker A:Hey, everybody.
Speaker A:Welcome to Grilling it to Green.
Speaker A:I'm JT and this is the show where we talk to the really fun and fascinating people in the world of golf.
Speaker A:And we would like to thank the folks at Painter Hills Natural Beef Beef.
Speaker A:You can be proud to serve your family and friends and beef it the way nature intended.
Speaker A:Also, real quick, they've reinstituted their, their discount program on their online store for my listeners.
Speaker A:So all you have to do is if you want to order some great steaks or something, you can.
Speaker A:And they may be in the grocery store right down the road from you, I don't know.
Speaker A:But if, if they're not in your local store, you can go to painted hills natural beef.com and they have a store there.
Speaker A:You can place your order and then the bottom left hand side you can type in the code BBQ Nation.
Speaker A:That's all you have to do and you get 15% off.
Speaker A:So there you go.
Speaker A:Also, we're talking to a longtime supporter of this show and a friend.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker A:I'm always fascinated to hear John.
Speaker A:This is John Breaker from Birdie Ball.
Speaker A:He and his father invented that thing quite a while ago.
Speaker A:It's made great leaps and bounds in the, in the golf world and their golf mats.
Speaker A:Last year or the year before, or was it 21 or 22 from my.
Speaker B:Golf spy, Both years.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:Back to back.
Speaker B:We're hoping we go three in a row here.
Speaker B:We'll see.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker A:You throw a party if you go three in a row.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, dude.
Speaker B:It's a party here all the time.
Speaker A:Is that your playroom you're sitting in, by the way, for?
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:This is one of our playrooms.
Speaker B:This is big screen TV right there, which is where the Golf Channel goes and in putting, putting greens and testing putting greens.
Speaker B:And yeah, this is, this is, you know, one of those luxuries.
Speaker B:I'm, I'm afraid I might have to give it up because we need some production space.
Speaker B:And so I, I may have to get rid of this room, which I'm just hating right now.
Speaker A:Don't get rid of that room, John.
Speaker A:That's a cool, that's a cool looking room.
Speaker A:All the wood and everything and the windows and probably an elk walks by once in a while, I mean.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, it's all good.
Speaker A:So what's New with birdie ball.
Speaker B:We are about ready to.
Speaker B:Well, we're doing a photo shoot Monday.
Speaker B:We're launching two new products.
Speaker B:One is, you know, we're calling it putt up 2.0.
Speaker B:And essentially it's a, you know, it's a putting green that is going to have a modular ramp at the end.
Speaker B:That modular ramp will have five holes in it.
Speaker B:Each hole will correspond to an equivalent distance equating to what a, a flat putt would roll out to.
Speaker B:So, for example, as you go up the hill, gravity influences the ball.
Speaker B:You know, every, you know, little putting that in the world has this little ramp at the end.
Speaker B:And we fought against ramps our whole life.
Speaker B:We think you got a putt on a flat surface to know speed, because speed is everything.
Speaker B:But if you can go up a hill and know how much energy that correlates to a flat putt, you're learning something.
Speaker B:Okay, right, so it'll be a ramp, five holes.
Speaker B:It'll be able to accommodate really up to 200 balls.
Speaker B:So it'll have a, you know, it'll have a, a ball inventory system at one end.
Speaker B:So you can just keep pulling a ball out.
Speaker B:It will come back to you.
Speaker B:But our putty green, it comes back to you if you miss it.
Speaker B:Okay, so it comes back to you when you miss it, not when you make it.
Speaker B:When you make it, it falls into a hole.
Speaker B:You can make it 200 times without ever moving.
Speaker B:And because we have really done the science and empirically done it, we know exactly how many lineal feet uphill that equates to on a flat putt.
Speaker B:So we'll be able to do 18 foot putts on a 10 foot long green, if that makes sense.
Speaker B:So, yeah, the hill, the hole that goes furthest up the hill is a, is, well, actually in putt up too.
Speaker B:It'll actually be 2.0.
Speaker B:It'll actually be a plus 12.
Speaker B:So you'll be able to actually simulate 22 foot putts.
Speaker B:So, you know, it's one of the frustrating things putting on a little mat in your office is you can only put so much energy into a putt.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:And our, and our greens are sort of famously fast.
Speaker B:And so you even get to put less, less energy.
Speaker B:Energy into it.
Speaker B:I mean, we have slow, medium, and fast.
Speaker B:But, you know, I always say you want to put on the fast because, you know, the only thing that the medium and the slower doing is we're putting more stuff in the way for your ball to run into.
Speaker B:So if you really want to see where that ball's going.
Speaker B:You want to be putting on fast greens, which is why the pros love putting on fast greens, right?
Speaker B:And, but this will have five holes.
Speaker B:It'll be, you know, plus 12, plus eight, plus six, plus four.
Speaker B:And then you'll have a, you'll have a zero.
Speaker B:So we'll have a, you know, one on the ground.
Speaker B:So it'll be, you know, that's a, that's a plus zero.
Speaker B:So you'll know, you know, this is how much energy an 18 foot putt takes on a 12 stimp green.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:And so, and, and yeah, so we've done the science on it.
Speaker B:You'll be able to learn it.
Speaker B:It's going to be shippable.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:This was, one of our constraints was these ramps are giant and anybody that's shipped anything recently realizes that.
Speaker A:Oh, wow.
Speaker B:Yeah, wow.
Speaker B:It's so funny because I went to buy some used irons on ebay the other day and I used to just.
Speaker B:So we have guests coming over all the time and we go do, you know, family fun zones all over the country and, and we're getting ready to go do some of a tpc.
Speaker B:But one of the things that happens is your irons walk away, right?
Speaker B:So, you know, you're doing it.
Speaker B:How this happens, I mean, I guess in our world today, it's not a mystery, but you know, the irons that will just kind of walk away.
Speaker B:So, you know, we, you know, when we're doing birdie ball stuff, we try to have lofted irons, you know, so pitching wedge through seven iron.
Speaker B:But every once in a while I'll go buy another set, right?
Speaker B: s from, you know,: Speaker B:So, you know, I was shocked.
Speaker B:I hadn't done it for several years and I bought a set of irons and I bid on it.
Speaker B:I didn't even look at what the shipping was going to cost because shipping is always like 19 bucks, right?
Speaker B:Well, no, I bought this set of irons and it was, they were links.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:There's a name, right?
Speaker B:So they, God, I don't even know what brand they were, but I liked them because they had good grips on them.
Speaker B:So, you know, and it was the full set, but it was 49 bucks or something.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, yeah, you buy, you know, we'll take the lofted clubs and use them shipping was 119 bucks.
Speaker B:And then I went and looked and sure enough, everybody on ebay has got these outrageous shipping prices now.
Speaker B:And, you know, honestly, it's one of, it's one of our core competencies that I, I just treasure, which is we have a great relationship with FedEx.
Speaker B:We ship probably more big boxes than anybody on the west side of Denver.
Speaker B:You know, our, our standard putting mat goes in a 12, 12, 48.
Speaker B:So, you know, 48 inches tall, you know, and it's just like shipping your club.
Speaker B:So anybody that ships their clubs understands this as well.
Speaker B:But 12, 12, 48, and we'll ship, you know, 80 to 100 of those a day.
Speaker B:You know, we'll fill up one of those, you know, FedEx box trucks and, you know, so we've got a great rate, I guess, is my point.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So, you know, I understand our rate and then I look at, you know, what people that don't have our rate have to pay to ship a big box.
Speaker B:And, and it's one of our, you know, it's one of our advantages.
Speaker B:I have a great relationship.
Speaker B:I know one of the vice presidents, FedEx.
Speaker B:And so we, you know, we help each other.
Speaker B:I guess I'll just.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So at any rate.
Speaker B:Yeah, so.
Speaker B:So, yeah, shipping, expensive and inflation.
Speaker B:And that's another whole rabbit hole.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:So the inflation, when you ask me how things are going, you're trying to manage inflation is, wow, it's a challenge.
Speaker B:I mean, we're in Colorado and housing here is probably as expensive as it is almost anywhere in the country.
Speaker B:We're about California.
Speaker B:California is dropping a little bit.
Speaker B:You're up there in the great Northwest.
Speaker B:It's expensive up there.
Speaker B:Colorado's one of those destination places and so it's very popular.
Speaker B:But, you know, trying to keep your workforce housed, you know, and I, and you know, we've got, you know, 15 full time employees and you know, most of them are, you know, good, hardworking, blue collar people.
Speaker B:And you know, they've had, you know, there are a couple of them that have moved in together, you know, because they can't afford, you know, a little apartment.
Speaker B:And, you know, it kind of breaks my heart.
Speaker B:I mean, it's, you know, you know, and of course it ties back to I got to pay them more, which of course I do, but then, you know, then I got to charge more.
Speaker B:And you know, this is not rocket science.
Speaker B:And you know, we, you know, we have this rampant inflation and I've literally told my suppliers, somebody's got to stop the madness.
Speaker B:I mean, you guys can't, you know, every time I put an order in, you can't be 25 more, 25% more expensive than the last time.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker A:We're going to take a break.
Speaker A:I'm going to be back with John Breaker from Birdie Ball and got a few more questions for him as usual.
Speaker A:We'll be right back.
Speaker A:Please stay with us.
Speaker A:Hi, everybody, it's JT and this is a special version of Grilling at the Green.
Speaker A:Grilling at the Green is brought to you in part by Painted Hills Natural Beef.
Speaker A:Beef you can be proud to serve your family and friends.
Speaker A:That's Painted Hills Natural Beef.
Speaker B:Foreign.
Speaker A:Welcome back to Grilling it, jt.
Speaker A:We're talking with my buddy and supplier.
Speaker A:He's always given me great stuff.
Speaker A:John Breaker from Birdie Ball.
Speaker A:Hey, if you want to contact us, of course we're on Twitter and Facebook and Instagram and what somebody called the other day, the Interweb.
Speaker A:You know, ridiculous things like that.
Speaker A:So we're not hard to find.
Speaker A:And we're also on the Golf News Network.
Speaker A:I heart 247 golf radio signal there.
Speaker A:And this show airs on Sunday afternoons or Sunday at noon.
Speaker A:So there you go.
Speaker A:Anyway, we're talking with John Brinker.
Speaker A:What I wanted to ask you, John, was are you the one doing all the R D or do you have an R D person that you work with?
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:So mostly me.
Speaker B:I, you know, I'm gonna say that's the way my brain works.
Speaker B:I'm a.
Speaker B:I've always tried to do things faster, better, stronger, and, and, and break the mold.
Speaker B:Like, don't do it.
Speaker B:Don't do it.
Speaker B:Like anybody else ever did it.
Speaker B:Like, if you're gonna do something, you know, don't, don't do it and copy somebody.
Speaker B:So that's sort of a fundamental part of our ideology.
Speaker B:You know, that's what you're gonna find in this putt up product.
Speaker B:Nobody's ever done that.
Speaker B:You know, we've got a new simulate simulator green coming out, right.
Speaker B:So, and that's going to be using our turf product.
Speaker B:So we do have the conventional turf product.
Speaker B:And, you know, you've got some of that.
Speaker B:We're improving that all the time.
Speaker B:I've got that's, that's getting better, faster, stronger.
Speaker B:And I'm working with, literally the people who make the fiber who go, you know, that is ultimately woven into the turf in working with them on, you know, developing a better putting type turf.
Speaker B:But, you know, we're going to be able to, you're gonna be able to shim it.
Speaker B:You're gonna be able to create all sorts of brakes.
Speaker B:It'll go right in front of your simulator.
Speaker B:You'll be able to hit off of it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So, you know, you'll be able to hit off of it, putt off of it, change the brakes, do, you know, do everything.
Speaker B:That's not a radical differentiator, you know, it's not, it's not like the birdie ball which takes a ball and turns it into a cylinder.
Speaker B:But you know, it's, it's, you know, there's nothing you know, quite like that out there.
Speaker B:And so, you know, we're, we're excited about that.
Speaker B:That's a, you know, that's just a burgeoning business, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah, everybody, you probably are having it up there.
Speaker B:All these boutique, you know, simulator.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And they're selling them like hotcakes.
Speaker B:It's a growth part of our business because, you know, nobody's really addressed the putting side of it.
Speaker B:You know, in a lot of the simulators you just, you know, take the two, putt and walk on.
Speaker B:But you know, there's there that's going to change I think over time, you know, you'll really do a little putting out and this and that.
Speaker B:Yeah, but that's a, you know, that's a growth business.
Speaker B:And so that's something we're turning our sights to is, you know, the simulator market.
Speaker B:And but you know, back to your question, you know, who develops it?
Speaker B:I do have a, an engineer, full time engineer on staff and he's really good at taking the ideas and making them reality.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So, you know, we've got a prototype CNC and you know, we've got, you know, bridge ports and turning equipment.
Speaker B:And so we got our little lab and so we have an idea, you know, we kind of make it and play with it to that end.
Speaker B:I'm going to give you, this is a scoop actually to sort of.
Speaker B:That there's going to be.
Speaker B:Birdie ball two is coming.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So birdie ball two is coming and it's hard to improve on, you know, perfection because that damn thing works so good that, you know, how would you change it or why.
Speaker B:But we are changing it a little bit and it'll be a little heavier feel.
Speaker B:We've you know, kicked the spin rate up a little bit so it'll go a little shorter, which is good.
Speaker B:Always trying to keep it in the backyard so it'll feel heavier and go shorter which are, you know, that's a Counterintuitive concept, but that's.
Speaker B:That's where we're headed.
Speaker B:And, you know, and we'll, you know, we think we're going to market, you know, both of them, maybe at the same time.
Speaker B:You get one dozen of the high spin and a dozen of the lower spin.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And, you know, the high spin worked a little better with the more lofted club, so.
Speaker A:Well, actually, you're kind of following what they're doing.
Speaker A:Trying to do with golf balls.
Speaker A:Well, you know, in a way, yeah.
Speaker B:You know, and we.
Speaker B: rding ball, but, you know, in: Speaker B:Was destroying the Masters, and they were saying, you know, they're gonna have to lengthen the golf course at the Masters, at Augusta.
Speaker B:And because of the golf ball, you know, it, you know, in conjunction with these phenomenal swing speeds that these athletes are producing.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker B:So, you know, the golf ball has changed.
Speaker B:Changed golf and, you know, again, along with the athlete.
Speaker B:But, you know, that was what Jack Nicklaus said was, you know, and that was kind of what our impetus was, was he said the golf ball will destroy the game someday.
Speaker B:And, you know, it's not an exact quote, but it's out there somewhere where he said, you know, that's our biggest challenge is the golf ball.
Speaker B: And, you know, back in: Speaker B:And, you know, there's.
Speaker B:They still haven't solved it, Jeff.
Speaker B:They still haven't solved it.
Speaker B:And, of course, this bifurcation and, you know, should we rein in the golf ball?
Speaker B:You know, these dialogues, you know, they started years and years and years and years ago, and now we're having them in.
Speaker B:In real time.
Speaker B:And, you know, golf courses that are 300 yacht, you know, 300 acres, you know, they just.
Speaker B:That, you know, you know, you're just not gonna be able to do it there.
Speaker B:People aren't going to allow you to take that much real estate and apply that to this.
Speaker B:This game we love.
Speaker B:And, you know, I mean, it probably isn't the highest and best use of the resources, you know, water and fertilizer and, you know, you know, fill in the blank.
Speaker B:Right, but.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:But, yeah, you know, the birdie ball is a derivative of trying to make the golf ball go less far.
Speaker B:And it's always been my belief that you had to change the shape, you know, that the polymers were going to continue to go better, faster, stronger.
Speaker B:I Mean, that's just.
Speaker B:That's science.
Speaker B:I mean, you know, the polymers get better.
Speaker B:They don't get worse.
Speaker B:You know, when was the last time you tried to open a bag of potato chips?
Speaker B:I mean, is that bag gotten stronger or weaker?
Speaker B:You know, the polymers are getting better and better and better.
Speaker B:And so the hysteresis, which is the rebound of the core of a golf ball, you know, and the day we went away from, you know, a rubber winding inside the golf ball to a hard, solid core polymer, was the day that Pandora was let out of the box.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And that core will only get better, faster, stronger, you know, and of course, you know, one of the ways they're doing it is five different cores and a, you know, and a urethane cover.
Speaker B:And, you know, and let's face it, I mean, it's way funner to play golf now.
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:And you.
Speaker B:And I was wondering, you know, I was going to ask you this question.
Speaker B:What do you think the greatest inventions in golf have been, you know, over the last 50 years?
Speaker A:The stainless steel flask.
Speaker B:Okay, excellent.
Speaker B:And then the one where you can actually go to the bathroom on the golf course.
Speaker A:Those two.
Speaker A:Those two, yeah.
Speaker B:Seriously.
Speaker A:But I will answer that question when we come back from break.
Speaker A:That's a really good question, John.
Speaker A:We're talking about John Breaker from Birdie Ball, and he and I are going to take a quick break, and then we're going to be back in just a couple minutes.
Speaker A:Stay with us.
Speaker A: named the best putting mat in: Speaker A:It was the mats from Birdie Ball.
Speaker A:It'll help you sink more putts and make more birdies with a birdie ball putting green, all in the comfort of your own home.
Speaker A:Check out Birdie ball online@birdieball.com Birdie Ball is here to make golf more fun and accessible.
Speaker A:Find out more@birdieball.com welcome back to Grilling at the Green.
Speaker A:I'm JT.
Speaker A:We'd like to thank the folks at Painted Hills Natural Beef.
Speaker A:Beef the way nature intended, and also the guy we're talking to today with all the folks at Birdie Ball.
Speaker A:John's been a big supporter of this show for several years now.
Speaker A:And you just go to birdieball.com I will tell you this, folks.
Speaker A:Last couple of years, I've had birdie balls in my booth at the Portland Golf show and all the stuff that I have there.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And we give them away.
Speaker A:We don't sell anything there, but we give them Away.
Speaker A:People are the most fascinated with birdie balls.
Speaker A:They come up and they go.
Speaker A:And I'll say, well, it looks like a napkin ring, an oversized napkin ring or something.
Speaker A:You know, I'll make some joke about it, and then I tell them about it.
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker A:And then I give them one, you know, or as I'm giving them one, somebody will walk by and go, oh, yeah, I've got those at home.
Speaker A:I use them in the backyard or at the park or whatever, three times a week to practice when we can't, you know, play here when the weather's in Clemont or something.
Speaker A:So you've.
Speaker A:You've made a.
Speaker A:You've made a splash in the golf industry, I'll say that.
Speaker A:But people are fascinated by them.
Speaker A:They really are.
Speaker A:So now, you asked me a question.
Speaker A:What's the biggest, best invention as far as golf?
Speaker A:And I'm assuming you're talking about equipment and stuff.
Speaker A:I would say.
Speaker A:I would say one, the golf ball and two, the golf clubs.
Speaker A:And you can reverse that order?
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:But I know that I've gotten older my.
Speaker A:And I'm kind of patched up now so I can go back and play.
Speaker A:My swing speed is slower than it was, you know, 10 years ago, but I'm hitting the ball as far.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker A:You know, I'm hitting the ball as far.
Speaker A:And in fact, I switched and went back to an old set of clubs when I started playing again this spring, because I thought, well, they're a little more forgiving, and.
Speaker A:And so on.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I put some new grips on them, and I'm still smacking the snot out of it when, you know, when I actually hit it, because the clubs are six years old, and that's an antique as far as the amount of clubs they're pumping out the door these days.
Speaker A:But they're great.
Speaker A:And the fact that if you use.
Speaker A:I don't care if you're using a Titleist, a Bridgestone, a Tailor Made, a Snell, whatever, they're still flying down the freeway.
Speaker A:The fairway, not the freeway.
Speaker A:Well, sometimes the freeway.
Speaker A:But anyway, that's what I think.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, and I'm gonna say I agree with you.
Speaker B:I was thinking about it, you know, before we got on, because I.
Speaker B:I have this concept that I want to do a podcast like you, but I want to do it around inventions.
Speaker B:And, you know, because you asked me the question, you know, who does the inventing of Rudy Ball?
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And, you know, and because I do love inventions.
Speaker B:I love them so much so that I love talking about them.
Speaker B:I love seeing the new stuff.
Speaker B:I would agree.
Speaker B:I think it's the golf ball first however, you know, but not far behind is, you know, the metal wood.
Speaker B:Right, Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, and, and of course the metal wood evolved into, into, you know, these drivers that we have with these unbelievable coefficients of restitution, you know that we've had to already put a govern, you know, we've already, we've already governed, you know, the, you know, that, that right number.
Speaker B:There isn't a number on the ball.
Speaker B:There is not a number on the ball.
Speaker B:And this is where I'm telling you the coefficient of restitution or the hysteresis in that core is just going to keep going and going and going.
Speaker B:Now you said, you know, you're hitting it as far, et cetera.
Speaker B:And, and that's what makes it fun for us.
Speaker B:You know, the, the only, the only problem is.
Speaker B:Have you played with an 18 year old yet?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh God, yeah.
Speaker B:I mean they're taking, it's like a year going there.
Speaker B:It's a, it's, it's a 380 yard, you know, dog leg left, you know, a perfect layup down there at 250, you know, and, and you know, bringing it in and you play it at place 380.
Speaker B:If you, if you go the dogleg, these guys are, these guys are cutting the corner, you know, taking 310 and just going, oh, I'm going right over the trees.
Speaker B:And you know, and that's great, I love playing with them.
Speaker B:But it gets back to that question, right?
Speaker B:The golf courses are, weren't built for that.
Speaker B:And, and it's, it's a different, I'm just gonna say it's a different game.
Speaker B:I'm not sure it's bad, I'm not sure it's worse.
Speaker B:It's just a different game.
Speaker B:And you know, then you take the pros and add them to that equation and.
Speaker A:Don'T you.
Speaker A:Let me jump in here for a second, don't you think.
Speaker A:And I don't want people at USGA and the RNA and I doubt if the RNA listens to any of these shows or anybody there, but I don't want them getting ticked off at me.
Speaker A:How could you not think.
Speaker A: would say anytime after about: Speaker A:How could you not think, if you were any, had any forward looking thoughts that something like this, maybe not to the degree it's happening, but what's gonna happen.
Speaker A:Because in the late 80s and mid-90s, that's when golfers and Tiger came on the scene.
Speaker A:And he's physically fit.
Speaker A:You know, he's not out drinking scotch and smoking two packs of Winstons every night.
Speaker A:He's in the gym.
Speaker A:And all these guys, whether they're pros or Emmys or at your local muni, they're following.
Speaker A:A lot of them are following in that footstep.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And this isn't something that just happened.
Speaker A: You know, we're in: Speaker A:How could people not have the bit of foresight to look and say, wow, we're really going to be smacking the snot out of these things before long?
Speaker A:That's my question.
Speaker B:Yeah, you know, I think it's, you know, that.
Speaker B:That problem of you trying to turn, you know, an oil tanker, you know, it takes.
Speaker B:It takes four hours to turn an oil tanker around.
Speaker B:Or, you know, something.
Speaker B:It's just, you know, it's just inertia.
Speaker B:I mean, the thing is moving that direction, and, you know, golf courses are getting built, and the same people building golf courses aren't designing the golf clubs.
Speaker B:You know, so, you know, and when you talk about a governing body.
Speaker B:Yeah, okay, you say the USGA and then the rna.
Speaker B:And, you know, this is, you know, this is one of the things that's interesting about golf is that who is in charge?
Speaker B:I mean, and.
Speaker B:And everybody wants to take, you know, I don't want to say everybody, but, you know, it's a sort of a battle.
Speaker B:And, you know, they'd be lying if the USGA said PGA was their, you know, favorite entity.
Speaker B:It would be a lie.
Speaker B:I mean, you know, you.
Speaker B:You might say it, and you might say it, and then.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:And then, you know, then, you know, who really wags the entire industry is the Masters.
Speaker B:And they, you know, because they are interested.
Speaker B:I mean, at the end of the day, my personal opinion is they.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:They're the alpha dog in the room right now.
Speaker B:So, you know, they.
Speaker B:They need to anoint these things.
Speaker B:And, you know, and, you know, they're.
Speaker B:Let's face it.
Speaker B:I mean, you know, they have a big investment investment there in Augusta, and, you know, we should.
Speaker B: ger destroyed their course in: Speaker B:What are you guys making?
Speaker B:I mean, this doesn't even fit in our game anymore.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:You know, what are we doing?
Speaker B:And, you know, because they're all their own fiefdom.
Speaker B:I mean, at the end of the day, they do their own thing.
Speaker A:Don't you, don't you look at that.
Speaker A:Look at the NFL.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Different game, a lot more brutal and physical.
Speaker A:But the guys that are playing in the NFL today for the most part and parcel would absolutely demolish the pro players from 25 years ago.
Speaker A:They would just run right over the top of them.
Speaker A:You know, once in a while you see the Refrigerator Perry guys out there and doing that stuff a little bit because they're just plugging holes.
Speaker A:But most of those guys, you know, they can run, they can run the hundred in under five seconds.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Type thing, you know, and they're big guys.
Speaker A:They're 325 pound guys.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I mean, I'm going to say.
Speaker B:I'm going to say that they, you know, they got caught kind of with their pants down too.
Speaker B:I mean, you know, the CTE syndrome.
Speaker B:I mean, those are massive people hitting, you know, making, you know, massive brain injuries.
Speaker B:And yeah, they got a tiger by the tail too.
Speaker B:And you know, as things get faster, bigger, stronger, you know, they're trying to, it's better helmets and it's changing the rules and.
Speaker B:But let's face it, the rules have had to be changed.
Speaker B:You know, they don't even think they're going to have kickoffs.
Speaker B:I mean, they're, they're, you know, they're, I don't know, they're experimenting with something this year that's going to make kickoffs even less important, but, you know, turn it down, the speed somehow.
Speaker B:And you know, they're kind of legislating that, you know, with rules and, you know, and you know, I don't know that golf is, you know, has woken up yet.
Speaker B:You know, the problem, you know, the issue was, you know, the NFL had to change.
Speaker B:I mean, people were dying.
Speaker B:You know, nobody's going to die on a golf course because somebody drove a 360 yard par four.
Speaker B:You know, that's not, that's not death.
Speaker B:You know, it's in an honesty.
Speaker B:It's probably the most exciting thing in goal.
Speaker B:I mean, do you remember when Bryson Dechambeau, you know, there was that carry over water and I don't know, it was like two years ago and nobody had done it.
Speaker B:Nobody had done it.
Speaker B:Nobody had done it in day four of the tournament.
Speaker B:I want to say he had the lead and you know, it was like 380 yards in carry.
Speaker B:I don't remember.
Speaker B:It was some huge number and that's what everybody wanted to see done.
Speaker B:And I get it, you know, I want to see it done, too.
Speaker A:We got to take another break.
Speaker A:We're going to be back, wrap up the show with John Breaker.
Speaker A:And John's going to stick around for after hours, which is always the fun part.
Speaker A:But we'll be right back.
Speaker A:Hi, everybody, it's jt and this is a special version of Grilling at the Green.
Speaker A:Grilling at the Green is brought to you in part by Painted Hill's Natural Beef.
Speaker A:Beef you can be proud to serve your family and friends.
Speaker A:That's Painted Hills Natural Beef.
Speaker A:Welcome back to Grilling at the Green here in Portland.
Speaker A:We're on AM 860.
Speaker A:The answer more and Ksey in Texas.
Speaker A:I don't remember all the call letters.
Speaker A:And the iheart.
Speaker A:The iheart thing is great.
Speaker A:We are, we're deriving some great numbers from that and it's on all the podcast platforms.
Speaker A:But we're talking with John Breaker from Birdie Ball.
Speaker A:Two things I wanted to point out.
Speaker A:I'm going to jump back to the, to the development of the Birdie Ball mats and different things.
Speaker A:John, I think some people maybe that are not quite informed enough.
Speaker A:They just think that you.
Speaker A:Not party ball, but because there's a lot of people that are putting out mats now, practice mats and stuff, but they think that, well, they just go, they buy this prefab kind of in their mind, Astroturf, if you will, and they cut it to a shape and they punch some holes in it and there's your mat.
Speaker A:And that's not what happens.
Speaker A:Especially.
Speaker A:I know the more I've known you over the years, the more the development that you've, you've explained to me and we've talked not just on the show, but everywhere.
Speaker A:You can see it just looking behind John on your screen when you see the video of this, folks, the one to your right, the viewer's right, is a very dark green plush.
Speaker A:No, the other way.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Cameras are the opposite.
Speaker B:Yep, yep, yep, yep.
Speaker A:You know, and that's kind of a putting green outdoor looking very dark and luminous like that.
Speaker A:And then on, on John's right, our left, that's a very light.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's, that's a different, different color, different texture like that.
Speaker A:So it's not all just one thing.
Speaker B:No, I mean, we, you know, my background is polymer engineering and I.
Speaker B:Not as an engineer, and I shouldn't say it like that.
Speaker B:My background is polymer sales, but I worked with engineers and helping develop polymers over the years.
Speaker B:I think I told you once I Worked for the guy that helped invent Teflon.
Speaker B:And so, yeah, I have a love for polymers and what we can do with them.
Speaker B:And, you know, a, a, you know, a turf green is made, could be made out of polypropylene, it can be made of polyethylene, it can be made out of nylon.
Speaker B:You know, there the strand can be 30,000ths thick, it can be 10,000ths thick, it can Be a 16th of an inch wide, it can Be, you know, 60,000ths wide, it can be this length.
Speaker B:It can be.
Speaker B:There's so many attributes to a turf green that it's almost mind boggling.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:So, so on the turf side, you know, if you're going to buy an outdoor turf green and we sell them or a simulator green, which is in a high wear area, you want to really dig into the science.
Speaker B:Ask the supplier, what are you making them out of?
Speaker B:Here's something that people, you know, have discovered, is that if you don't buy the right thing in the right climate, it can melt.
Speaker B:I mean, yeah, you know, putting greens can actually melt.
Speaker B:It's crazy if you don't.
Speaker B:So there are some.
Speaker B:Nylon is a higher temperature polymer.
Speaker B:You know, the, the height of the weave.
Speaker B:When we're done weaving it, do we, do we finish cut it?
Speaker B:You know, is there a, is there a way to bring all the, all the fibrils up to the same height?
Speaker B:Okay, so that's turf.
Speaker B:And we're just now, I'm just now learning turf to the degree that I need to know turf.
Speaker B:You know, over this shoulder is the stuff that we know for 20 years.
Speaker B:And, you know, we take an aerated polymer foam material and we put a grain in the surface and we make that grain into different fibril lengths, heights and widths and so that we can control the stump.
Speaker B:And we also put it on an angle, just like natural grass is at an angle.
Speaker B:Which is why when you walk up to a putting green, you should notice, you know, am I looking, is this a shiny surface I'm looking at or a dull surface?
Speaker B:Because the shiny means I'm going down grain.
Speaker B:And if I'm looking into the dull surface, if it looks dull, I'm rolling it into the grain.
Speaker B:And, you know, and that affects the speed.
Speaker B:And of course, you know, there's nothing more important in putting than speed.
Speaker B:I, I really kind of believe that.
Speaker B:I mean, you got to be on the right line.
Speaker B:I mean, absolutely.
Speaker B:It's, it's, you know, it's speed and the line.
Speaker B:Okay?
Speaker B:So it's, it's both of those things, but lots of putting greens.
Speaker B:We know more about putting greens than anybody in the world.
Speaker B:We'll say that hands down.
Speaker A:Fascinating.
Speaker A:Go to birdieball.com you can see the greens.
Speaker A:You can see the birdie balls.
Speaker A:You can see all the other things that they offer there.
Speaker A:It's a, it's a great product, great company, and I'm proud to be associated with them.
Speaker A:And John, thank you for being on the regular show, bud.
Speaker B:It's always my pleasure.
Speaker B:Let's throw a discount code out there and you'll have to let me know when this is going to air and during, you know, whenever this airs for three days.
Speaker B:After that, we'll have a code that works.
Speaker B:And let's, let's, let's, let's go G8GATG.
Speaker A:That's all you have to do.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So gatg it will do 20 off, which is a, is a big number, particularly if you start looking at these simulator greens there.
Speaker B: et as expensive as, you know,: Speaker B:So that could be 300 off of that.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker A:I'll make sure David puts that in the show because we're way over time.
Speaker A:But anyway, we're going to go to after hours.
Speaker A:We thank you for listening.
Speaker A:We thank John Breaker from Birdie Ball.
Speaker A:Again, we all hope you have a great week.
Speaker A:Go out and play some golf and like I always tell you, be kind.
Speaker A:Take care.
Speaker A:Grilling at the Green is produced by JTSD Productions, LLC in association with Salem Media Group.
Speaker A:All rights reserve.
