Michael J Whelan, Former VP of Production For Golf Channel - Afterhours Encore
This podcast episode delves into the intricate dynamics of the sports media industry, particularly focusing on the implications of Lisa Cornwell's newly released book, "Troublemaker." We engage with Mike Whalen, a distinguished figure in the field, who shares his insights on the transformative changes within the Golf Channel and the broader landscape of sports broadcasting. Our discourse touches upon the challenges of mental health and the necessity of fostering a culture of empathy within corporate environments. Furthermore, we scrutinize the contentious emergence of LIV Golf and its impact on the traditional golfing community. Through this dialogue, we aim to illuminate the multifaceted nature of these pressing issues and encourage our listeners to reflect on the evolving narrative of sports and media.
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Painted Hills Natural Beef
- Golf Channel
- LIV Golf
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcript
Welcome to Grilling at the Green.
Speaker A:After Hours conversation that took place after the broadcast ended.
Speaker A:Hi, everybody, it's JT and this is a special version of Grilling at the Green.
Speaker A:Grilling at the Green is brought to you in part by Painted Hills Natural Beef.
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Speaker A:That's Painted Hills Natural Beef, everybody.
Speaker A:Welcome to After Hours here on Grilling at the Green.
Speaker A:I'm Jeff Tracy, or as people call me, jt and we've got Mike Whalen with us today.
Speaker A:If you miss the regular show, you can hear it, you know, on any of the podcast versions.
Speaker A:Mike's a two time Emmy winner, winner, Peabody Award winner.
Speaker A:He was the real impetus of getting the Golf Channel on the air.
Speaker A:Originally worked there for several years.
Speaker A:We had a good discussion in the regular show about the changes there at Golf Channel.
Speaker A:One thing we touched on was the social media platforms and things like that.
Speaker A:We're going to talk about live golf coming up in a minute.
Speaker A:But our, we've got a mutual friend.
Speaker A:Lisa's been on the show several times, Lisa Cornwell.
Speaker A:She's got a new book that just came out, Troublemaker.
Speaker A:I was one of the first people that got talked her into coming on this show and talking about the book.
Speaker A:And then of course we had Tucker, Tucker Booth with us too, when we talked about the visceral stuff, Mike, and people gnawing at each other and throwing against the wall, if you will pardon me for that.
Speaker A:I read some stuff today before we recorded this about Lisa's book and some guy on there said, oh, I skimmed it so you don't have to read it.
Speaker A:And the main thing is, you know, the EEOC didn't rule in her way.
Speaker A:So there.
Speaker A:And I thought, I didn't comment because I try not to a lot of times, but I thought if that's all you got out of that book, you're a moron.
Speaker A:So that was my gut reaction.
Speaker B:Yeah, look, you know, we talked about it earlier.
Speaker B:There's a divisive world we live in.
Speaker B:It's in every aspect of our lives and it filters over into sports.
Speaker B:You know, there are going to be people that understand Lisa's purpose of writing the book with Tucker.
Speaker B:And there's going to be people that are so sick and tired.
Speaker B:And I understand that at times of the, of the MeToo movement, right.
Speaker B:That they got to come firing salvos at somebody and say, if that's all you got, then you've got nothing.
Speaker B:I worked at the Golf Channel from the very, very, very beginning.
Speaker B:There was no HR department there.
Speaker B:And I'm going to tell you this right now.
Speaker B:I don't care if you're in sports television.
Speaker B:I don't care if you're an artist, a poet, an actor, a politician.
Speaker B:There's always going to be alpha male men and women.
Speaker B:Just happens.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:Fleetwood Mac didn't get along.
Speaker B:They wanted to kill each other.
Speaker B:And then they went out and did a beautiful concert, you know.
Speaker B:You know, I, I, I get it.
Speaker B: shocked that, you know, it's: Speaker B:We're still doing crazy things.
Speaker B:Men are still doing crazy things, and so are women, some of them.
Speaker B:Not to the degree of men.
Speaker B:But the way that we treat people is so humane that it makes me sick.
Speaker B:It's, it's.
Speaker B:Look, look, if you follow me, I made my own mistakes at the Golf Channel.
Speaker B:I did things I shouldn't have done back in the 90s as well.
Speaker B:I was battling bipolar depression, and I was fighting to live, let alone build a billion dollar company.
Speaker B:So I get all of this.
Speaker B:So when I read Lisa's book, you know, it didn't surprise me.
Speaker B:There was nothing in there.
Speaker B:There was one thing that surprised me in Lisa's book.
Speaker B:How in the hell do you have a husband and wife working in the same company, making decisions together, and that being allowed to happen.
Speaker B:That's the craziest thing that I've ever heard of in my life.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:I couldn't agree with you more.
Speaker A:When I worked for a couple of large media companies, I actually tried to stay away from the HR department.
Speaker A:Mike.
Speaker A:I would first, I remember the last one I worked for.
Speaker A:I walked in there, I had a friend that already worked there, and he was showing me around and showing me where the studios were in this.
Speaker A:That we're kind of walking down the one hallway and he goes, and that's the HR department.
Speaker A:And we took a left, and he goes, you want to stay away from there if you possibly can't?
Speaker A:And so I took, I took his advice and I never had to go there.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker B: n I built the Golf Channel in: Speaker B:I was bringing in people from all over the world.
Speaker B:You know, there was no history to the Golf Channel.
Speaker B:It didn't exist.
Speaker B:So that for the 100 people that I brought in, we Worked together, we hung out together.
Speaker B:We had relationships together.
Speaker B:Some people got married, some people got divorced.
Speaker B:But, you know, that was back in the 90s.
Speaker B:It was a different time back then.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, we.
Speaker B:We have learned by our mistakes.
Speaker B:HR should have learned.
Speaker B:Corporations should have learned.
Speaker B:People should have learned.
Speaker B:These are things you got to sit down and say, you know what?
Speaker B:We don't tolerate this.
Speaker B:We don't tolerate that.
Speaker B:Reading a lot of what Lisa wrote is shocking to me, and some of it is.
Speaker B:It doesn't surprise me one damn bit.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:Are you still in contact with anybody at Golf Channel?
Speaker B:Maybe two or three people.
Speaker B:It's been one of the most.
Speaker B:I'm going to say this nicely.
Speaker B:It's been one of the most disappointing, heartbreaking things that I have experienced in my life, that every single person who works at that Golf Channel, who worked at the Golf Channel has six degrees of separation to me.
Speaker B:Without me, and I'm sorry, I'm going to say this.
Speaker B:The Golf Channel would have imploded.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Did I make mistakes?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:But for guys like Joe Gibbs, for never contacting me for 21 years, even as I lied dying in a hospital bed last year, not to reach out and say, hey, Mike, hope things work out.
Speaker B:We didn't always get along, but I appreciate you building me, making me a $2 billion company, and I hope you do well.
Speaker B:And a lot of the people there was heartbreaking.
Speaker B:And I've learned that people like my closet.
Speaker B:Every now and then you got to do some spring cleaning.
Speaker B:You got to get rid of shit to put new stuff in there.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I've gotten over it.
Speaker B:A couple of people have hung, have kept in contact.
Speaker B:Some people, hey, the biggest, you know, what's the biggest mystery?
Speaker B:Who built the pyramids in Egypt or who started the Golf Channel?
Speaker B:Many people would like to know that.
Speaker B:But as Tucker said it so brilliantly, imagine them doing a story about Saturday Night Live and never mentioning Lorne Michaels.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:So if you read Tucker's book, I don't know if he had a chance to read Tucker's memoir on me, because for about 17 years, I hid.
Speaker B:I never talked to anybody.
Speaker B:I battled with my own demons of bipolar disorder that the Golf Channel was not prepared to help me with.
Speaker B:They did things to me that no company should ever do to somebody.
Speaker B:But, you know, it's been part of my experience.
Speaker B:I've moved on.
Speaker B:I've met people, the love of my life.
Speaker B:I've met new friends, people like you, people like Tucker.
Speaker B:Other people have come along.
Speaker B:So you Know everything that happens to you leads you to another place that you're supposed to be disappointed tremendously.
Speaker B:They've scrubbed me out of everything.
Speaker B:That's Golf Channel.
Speaker B:If I didn't come out and talk to people like you and others never would be mentioned.
Speaker A:Nobody would know.
Speaker B:And it's bizarre, it's strange, it's dysfunctional.
Speaker B:But that's the people that ran the Golf.
Speaker B:That's who they are.
Speaker B:So when I read Lisa's story, I said, are you kidding me?
Speaker B:My story's a lot worse than this.
Speaker B:One Troublemaker two coming out.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker A:There you go, Mike.
Speaker A:So let me throw a couple names at you and just tell us what you think.
Speaker A:We'll start with the obvious.
Speaker A:Brandell Chamblee.
Speaker B:Randall's tough.
Speaker B:I don't know Brando personally.
Speaker B:From an executive standpoint, I'd hire him in a minute.
Speaker B:From a personal standpoint, from what I've read, it's been somewhat disappointing.
Speaker B:I have no reason not to believe what I've heard.
Speaker B:It's what happens when you have a husband and a wife running a company.
Speaker B:It becomes somewhat of a cabal, a mafia.
Speaker B:Brando is the superstar.
Speaker B:Hey, he's got three or four hundred thousand followers.
Speaker B:So don't tell me he's no good, and don't tell me he's The Brandle knows this stuff as well as anybody.
Speaker B:But it goes back to what I said, Jeff, earlier.
Speaker B:It happens in every field.
Speaker B:The more important you become, shame on the executives for kissing his ass as much as they do.
Speaker B:Same thing with Mick Fleetwood and same thing with David Bowie and same thing with Bruce Willis, and same thing with, you know, you start to believe it, and you become, you know, impenetrable, and that's what happens.
Speaker B:But Brando's not a unique guy.
Speaker B:Everybody has a Brandle Chamblee.
Speaker B:But as long as people keep, you know, all these people who hate them, they keep watching them.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And so, you know, that's what they loved back in the old days about Howard Cosell.
Speaker B:We hate that.
Speaker B:But they watched them at hbo.
Speaker B:There was a guy by the name of Larry Merchant.
Speaker B:They hated Larry, but, man, they couldn't wait to turn on, to throw things at the screen.
Speaker B:So, hey, that's good stuff.
Speaker B:I'll take that all day long.
Speaker B:You know, I love Lisa, I love Tucker.
Speaker B:I'm all for the MeToo movement, but, you know, it's hard because as an executive, you know, you want your ratings up there.
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I would have.
Speaker B:I would have sat down with him a lot earlier I would have tried to resolve this because I had the same problem with Peter Kessler, the biggest, because Peter Kessler came in as the most humble guy ever on the face of the planet.
Speaker B:He had to.
Speaker B:He had never been on tv.
Speaker B:I taught Peter everything I knew.
Speaker B:He became a superstar and he became bigger than the network.
Speaker B:I would have thought that you and I talking today would be talking about Peter Kessler's induction into golf's hall of Fame.
Speaker B:Instead, I have no idea where Peter Kessler is.
Speaker B:He never bounced back.
Speaker B:He wanted to take on Arnold over a non conforming club after being told not to.
Speaker B:And so, you know, I know I've gone off the path on Brando a little bit.
Speaker A:That's all right.
Speaker B:But when you're running a business, that's a hard decision.
Speaker B:I would have tried to fix it.
Speaker B:I would have hoped with my open door policy that the stuff that I hear that Molly Solomon and Jeff Russell and a few of the others communicated to Lisa was just bad business practice.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's why not to interject myself in this because I have absolutely nothing to do with the Golf Channel Mike, as you know.
Speaker A:But after I read Lisa's book when I came out and I of course was promoing that she was going to be on the show and all that stuff that we do, and I said I thought that Lisa's book should be mandatory reading in business school.
Speaker A:If you're going to go into broadcasting, you should read it.
Speaker A:You should read it in broadcasting business school, if you will.
Speaker A:Sports management school.
Speaker A:I listed off a few of them.
Speaker A:Not that it's going to become the bible for all of that, but it's a very good lesson to learn to keep your eyes open to see how people deal with things and how people should not deal with things.
Speaker A:And that's kind of the review I gave it.
Speaker A:And I stand by that because there's really no sense in this day and age to play those kinds of games.
Speaker A:We don't have enough time.
Speaker A:First of all, when you get to be over 60 like you and I are, Michael, you realize that you don't have time for that crap.
Speaker A:You got to keep moving and going forward, being, trying to be positive and put out your best product and whatever you want to say about life.
Speaker A:But I just think that some of those things that Lisa explained in her Ann Tucker explained in that book were almost like being a sophomore in high school again.
Speaker B:Well, I mean, there's a couple of things that really stood out to me.
Speaker B:The first thing was As I said that there's no company that.
Speaker B:That should be having a husband and wife.
Speaker B:People putting their heads on their pillow at night, making decisions together.
Speaker B:I'm knocking on the door of 70.
Speaker B:I've never heard that my entire life of any public company ever happened.
Speaker B:How that happened, it's beyond me.
Speaker B:The second thing is Lisa sharing a private moment about her sexuality and about who she was dating in a private conversation.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And for that to be leaked out and to be outed, I mean, pisses me off.
Speaker B:You know, there are.
Speaker B:There are gay.
Speaker B:There are trans people in my life.
Speaker B:You know, I go back to the 70s marching with Harvey Milk.
Speaker B:I go back to the 80s working with Dr.
Speaker B:Anthony Fauci in AIDS.
Speaker B:So I have been a strong proponent for the LGBTQ community for many, many, many, many years.
Speaker B:And when I heard that story, it gave me a minor panic attack to hear that, because the same thing happened to me over my bipolar disorder.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, back when I had.
Speaker B:You know, today everybody applauds mental health and.
Speaker B:And says how courageous people are.
Speaker B:When I was going through it, you wore a scarlet letter.
Speaker B:I mean, I was.
Speaker B:If you watch the Beautiful Mind, produced by Ron Howard, where you had John Nash as the mathematician.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:That was me.
Speaker B:Only in tv, you know, that that's the struggles that I had.
Speaker B:And I had nobody to reach out to at the Golf Channel, even though I told people, you know, my bipolar disorder was severe and I built a beautiful company.
Speaker B:So, you know, when the Golf Channel let me go, the abandonment, the isolation, the people not talking to me, you know, I.
Speaker B:As many people know, I attempted suicide, and fortunately, it didn't work.
Speaker B:But that's what mental health can do to somebody who doesn't get the right help.
Speaker B:Fortunate for me, it led me to getting help, treatment.
Speaker B:It led me to be an advocate for mental health people.
Speaker B:Where I work in suicide hotlines, I work with mental health people.
Speaker B:But, you know, once again, it's protecting people privacy and handling their situations in a private, professional, empathetic manner.
Speaker B:And we've lost empathy in the world today.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think we have.
Speaker A:So I want to tell you a story here, Mike.
Speaker A:Yesterday, I was at a benefit golf tournament.
Speaker A:I play in several a year.
Speaker A:I help them if they raise money for veterans or for students.
Speaker A:And I've got a.
Speaker A:I've kind of got my little favorite list that I help with.
Speaker A:And one of the raffle prizes I helped give them was for somebody.
Speaker A:It was prizes from somebody who now works for live golf.
Speaker A:And when I wrote the cheat sheet for the announcer, and she was reading it and she said, you know, now he works for LIV Golf.
Speaker A:And all the audience booed in Portland.
Speaker A:And that always kind of surprised me, actually.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'm, I'm not a.
Speaker A:I have no problem with the players.
Speaker A:I have a problem with the administration of that outfit, but that's me, and I don't need to go any further.
Speaker A:But I was really surprised that the audience had a very relaxed afternoon.
Speaker A:Everybody had a great time playing.
Speaker A:It was a lot of fun.
Speaker A:They were having a couple of drinks, had a nice dinner, and this stuff comes out.
Speaker A:And then they booed.
Speaker A:It wasn't the person that donated it.
Speaker A:It was the LIV Golf.
Speaker A:And, and, and live golf didn't leave a very good taste in a lot of people's mouth because they had a tournament up here at Pumpkin Ridge last year.
Speaker A:And that's a whole different thing.
Speaker A:I just wanted to get your take on liv.
Speaker B:Well, interestingly, three and a half years ago, I got a phone call from some of the people from the LIVE organization.
Speaker B:At the time, they were interested in me being a consultant.
Speaker B:Three and a half years ago, LIVE wasn't.
Speaker B:Was it is today.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:It wasn't going to be a tournament.
Speaker B:They kind of thought that they could make it into a Golf Channel type of a spin off.
Speaker B:I spoke to them for a while.
Speaker B:I told them that they were going to have problems getting the rights to the footage, which the Golf Channel pretty much has.
Speaker B:I mean, they monopolized it.
Speaker B:And then when I found out that the backers were going to be Saudi in the PIF and the.
Speaker B:It was, it was a hard no for me.
Speaker B:Yeah, it just, it just.
Speaker B:Look, you know, it goes back to what I'm, you know, it goes back to everything.
Speaker B:You're either pro Trump or you're.
Speaker B:You're pro Biden.
Speaker B:You're either for LGBTQ rights or you're against it, you're for abortion or.
Speaker B:I mean, we go on with all of these either ors and it's.
Speaker B:I mean, for all the reasons that people don't like it is the reason that I'm not for it.
Speaker B:You know, I've been kind of quiet about it.
Speaker B:I've got friends that who work for liv.
Speaker B:I'm disappointed in them.
Speaker B:A couple of them.
Speaker B:We don't seem to be getting along very well these days.
Speaker B:I have my feelings.
Speaker B:I'm not going to change the.
Speaker B:What about isms always come out.
Speaker B:Well, you put gas in your car and you wear Nike shoes and the hat you're wearing there.
Speaker B:Jeff Came from China.
Speaker B:There's a big difference between being an employee of and a consumer of.
Speaker B:And I was talking to my daughter the other day, and my daughter used to dance for the New York Ballet Company, and my daughter was telling me about the LIV situation, and she said, you know what?
Speaker B:When I was dancing for the ballet company, we often went to China, we often went to Saudi Arabia, to Qatar, we often went to Moscow, and we performed our art with the New York Philharmonic.
Speaker B:And what we wanted to do was to show what a democracy could be.
Speaker B:We also wanted to show the beauty of the arts.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:And she said, michael, she said, dad, that's a big difference from me calling you up and saying, I'm leaving the New York Ballet Company and I'm signing up for the Saudi Arabia Ballet Company and I'm now going to be paid by MBS and the PIF fund and I'm no longer going to be part of the New York.
Speaker B:And I kind of got it.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:Now.
Speaker B:Now.
Speaker B:You know, the thing that I don't like about it is the people that speak for Live all seem to be avatar people.
Speaker B:They don't sign their, they don't put their pictures on their, their, their sites.
Speaker B:They don't sign their bylines with real names.
Speaker B:I don't know who these people are.
Speaker B:Corrupt.
Speaker B:Fake news, corrupt people.
Speaker B:It has a familiar sound to something else we just went through a couple of years ago.
Speaker B:So I think that there's, you know, 20, 30% of the people, if that much, that support live.
Speaker B:And I think there's a lot that I don't care what happens.
Speaker B:They're just never going to buy into it.
Speaker B:I don't see a merger with it.
Speaker B:I have some friends at CW who are really kind of not happy that they made a deal with liv.
Speaker B:They can't convince all their affiliates and their owned and operated stations to buy in.
Speaker B:So I guess I'm going to be one of those people that are just going to say, not for me.
Speaker A:I know those, those guys wouldn't give me media credentials just to drive 20 miles.
Speaker A:I mean, I, I can get media credentials to pretty much anything because of this show and the other work that I do.
Speaker A:And they said, well, well, who did.
Speaker B:I mean, I mean, how, how does that go about on your part?
Speaker B:Who do you, who do you have to talk to to get a credential on that particular league?
Speaker A:They have a.
Speaker A:Some mysterious.
Speaker A:You fill out a form and you send it into LIV headquarters, I'm assuming, because you don't know really where it's going.
Speaker A:And then they came back a couple weeks later and said, well, we thank you for applying, but not at this time.
Speaker A:And that's all they said was just not at this time.
Speaker A:And they kind of hand selected.
Speaker A:They didn't get a lot of really good media coverage up here because, you know, Oregon obviously is very liberal.
Speaker A:And they had some.
Speaker A:The 911 families protesting outside the gates at Pumpkin Ridge in the little town of North Plains right there.
Speaker A:And so I don't know who made the decision.
Speaker A:I mean, if they'd have checked with the LPGA or the pga, they'd have said, yeah, he gets credentials from us, you know, but they didn't.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I don't even know how I didn't go out there.
Speaker A:I wasn't going to buy a ticket and go out there.
Speaker A:I was fully prepared to give them, you know, take a neutral observer position, as I usually do, and report from that.
Speaker A:But no, they didn't want it.
Speaker A:So I don't.
Speaker A:I don't know, to answer your question, Mike, anyway.
Speaker B:Well, I've watched one of their productions.
Speaker B:I watched the event from.
Speaker B:I'm trying to think, and I apologize.
Speaker B:Actually, it might be here in Orlando that I watched the event.
Speaker B:And I watched the event in its entirety on a Saturday, just so that when I do comment, I have at least the experience of seeing what it is they're doing.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:I can only go by the CW television coverage.
Speaker B:There's no more shots.
Speaker B:They're not doing anything differently.
Speaker B:It's exactly the same.
Speaker B:The only thing that LIV does differently based on the CW coverage is they fill the whole damn screen with so many graphics that there should be a warning that these could possibly.
Speaker B:That what you're about to see could possibly cause a seizure.
Speaker B:I mean.
Speaker B:I mean.
Speaker B:I mean.
Speaker B:I mean, I've never seen so much stuff on the screen in my life.
Speaker B:And I hear it comes from the Formula One model of how they do their broadcast.
Speaker B:But for me, I'm a traditionalist.
Speaker B:I'm almost 70 years old.
Speaker B:I don't want to see a bunch of shit on the screen.
Speaker B:I want to watch the event.
Speaker B:I'm too distracted with all this stuff.
Speaker B:Rowing, golf.
Speaker B:I don't want to hear the Village People's YMCA blasting on the first tee.
Speaker B:I'm not excited watching guys in shorts, people chugging beers for a.
Speaker B:I don't see it growing the game.
Speaker B:It's not for me.
Speaker B:I get that.
Speaker B:And like I said, I have my own moral reasons why it's not for me.
Speaker B:And so I can't even have civil discourse on this because it's black or white.
Speaker B:There's no middle ground and there never will be.
Speaker A:I get it, Mike.
Speaker A:I get it.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Let's have some fun here.
Speaker A:If you could play around a golf with one of your golfing heroes, who would it be?
Speaker B:Well, I play.
Speaker B:I've played with Arnold.
Speaker B:I played with Sam Snead.
Speaker B:I've played with Marco Mirror.
Speaker B:I have played with.
Speaker B:How I met Tucker actually is.
Speaker B:I played with Donald Trump that he's not my hero.
Speaker B:Don't.
Speaker B:I get it two together.
Speaker B:Who would I play?
Speaker B:I, I think for me, I would, I think it would be interesting if I could grab two guys.
Speaker B:I would love to play with Tiger woods and Bobby Jones.
Speaker A:Now that would be fun.
Speaker A:That would be really fun.
Speaker A:Okay, so I played.
Speaker B:I've never played with.
Speaker B:I've never played with Tiger.
Speaker B:So it's.
Speaker B:That would be interesting, I think.
Speaker B:Not sure, but I think.
Speaker A:Oh, I think it probably would be.
Speaker A:So if you were declared supreme leader of golf for one day, what would Supreme Leader Mike Whelan decree as the ruler of golf?
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:The ruler of golf.
Speaker B:Well, you know, this would have been an easier question to answer before Liv.
Speaker B:So I don't know what's going to happen happen.
Speaker B:I, I would, I, I would like to see a.
Speaker B:I would like to see the LPGA get a lot more recognition, coverage, exposure, respect then it's gotten over the decades up until now.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker A:I agree with you.
Speaker A:What's the dumbest thing you ever saw while watching coverage that, you know you were the executive producer of or one of them?
Speaker A:What's the dumbest thing you ever saw done while covering a tournament.
Speaker B:By.
Speaker B:By one of my staff people or just golf in general?
Speaker A:Oh, no, let's make it easy.
Speaker A:One of your staff people.
Speaker B:Well, well, you know, I, I've definitely seen people throw to commercial and pick their nose thinking they were in commercial.
Speaker B:I've seen people combing their hair.
Speaker B:I've seen people coughing.
Speaker B:I've seen people spitting.
Speaker B:It usually comes from the announcers thinking they're off the air.
Speaker B:It's usually one of those things.
Speaker B:I personally have driven a golf cart in the lake a few times back in the old days when I used to have a few cocktails when I played.
Speaker B:I've driven a golf cart off a bridge once or twice.
Speaker B:So I'm still around to talk about that.
Speaker B:But you know what I would fix in golf today?
Speaker B:I don't know where I would begin.
Speaker B:I don't know if I buy in the rollback of the ball.
Speaker B:I don't know the equipment anymore.
Speaker B:I just think people are stronger, faster.
Speaker B:They fix courses to roll out a lot more.
Speaker B:I think people today love the home run ball, so I don't think that's going to make a big difference.
Speaker B:I mean, we see courses like Riviera, you can fix courses to make them a little bit more challenging.
Speaker B:They don't have to be 8,000 yards.
Speaker B:You don't have to buy another a couple hundred acres like Augusta national is doing anymore.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:There are.
Speaker B:There are easier ways to make them a little bit more challenging.
Speaker B:But, you know, what I notice in golf today is the absence of what the LPGA is all about.
Speaker B:And I don't know if that's just me.
Speaker B:I don't know if that's because I've just recently read Lisa's book, and it's sticking in my head right now.
Speaker B:But I just don't think that today's executives and I don't know the numbers, Jeff.
Speaker B:I don't know what the advertising dollars are.
Speaker B:I don't know what the viewership is.
Speaker B:So at the end of the day, these are business decisions.
Speaker B:But if the numbers are.
Speaker B:If they're fair, if they're equal, I just don't get the.
Speaker B:I just don't get the exposure like it was when I covered it.
Speaker B:I mean, like I said earlier, when I was the executive, I had people assigned just to cover the LPGA tour, and they were a part of our everyday programming.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Every day.
Speaker A:So if we put Mike Whalen's skills to music, what would the music be?
Speaker B:Oh, right.
Speaker B:Jeff, you're worse than Tucker Dale Booth, let me tell you.
Speaker B:God, it would.
Speaker B:Well, you know, my family says that I'm pretty nuts.
Speaker B:You know, it would probably be.
Speaker B:If you really want to see the real me, the personality of me, it's probably me in my bathrobe dancing to the Village People's ymca.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:That's probably what it is.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:I mean, fair enough.
Speaker B:I'm a bit eccentric.
Speaker B:I have a lot of fun.
Speaker B:The older I get, the.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The hourglasses running out, and I try to make every tragedy into some type of a blessing these days.
Speaker A:Yeah, I get it.
Speaker A:Trust me, I get it.
Speaker A:So, Mike, if you could dine with a historical figure, who would it be and what would be on the menu?
Speaker B:If I could dine with a historical figure?
Speaker A:Yeah, they don't even have to be upright anymore.
Speaker A:We'll dig them up.
Speaker B:Well, I don't know.
Speaker B:I don't even think Your audience is going to know this guy.
Speaker B:But I would pick Hunter Thompson.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Gonzo.
Speaker A:Journalism all the way.
Speaker B:Okay, okay.
Speaker B:Well, 100.
Speaker B:Well, I, I, I, I don't know if I should tell this story or not, but back in the 80s when I was covering Martina Navratilova, who had a house in Aspen, Colorado, I was in a bar one night and there was a guy right next to me, pretty wasted.
Speaker B:Long story short, it turned out to be Hunter Thompson.
Speaker B:And Hunter and I weren't very good boys that night, and he and I both got arrested together.
Speaker B:And thank God the local sheriffs let us go before they took us down to the police station.
Speaker B:But, but I would say it would probably be Hunter Thompson.
Speaker B:My second interesting guy who I had the opportunity to meet, and again, you might.
Speaker B:Is Leonard Cohen.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Hallelujah.
Speaker B:The writer, musician.
Speaker B:But, but I am drawn to eccentric type people.
Speaker B:The Baryshnikovs, the Daniel Day Lewis's, the, the, the just the people that just aren't quite all there but bring a brilliance to where you're just fascinated and you can't take your eyes off of them.
Speaker A:Yep, I get it, believe me.
Speaker A:What's one thing you miss about your 20s?
Speaker B:I would say, I would probably say the ability to pee standing up.
Speaker A:Did you ever go to, did you ever go to Studio 54?
Speaker B:I went to Studio 54.
Speaker B:I was a regular at Studio 54.
Speaker A:My mic's got goofy here.
Speaker A:And you survived.
Speaker B:Well, you're, you're, you're, you, you're.
Speaker B:Look, you're talking to me today, my friend.
Speaker B:How I did that, how I did that is way beyond me.
Speaker B:But, yeah, I have, I might, what I might do is I might post some pictures after you and I speak about some of the earlier days.
Speaker B:But I, but you know, I hung out a lot with the Jack Nicholson's, the Bruce Willis's, the Gene Hackmans.
Speaker A:Yeah, I get it.
Speaker B:You know, we, you know, this was back in the, this was back in the 80s when it was just a different time and, you know, it was a.
Speaker B:There's a lot of great stories to tell and thank God I'm still alive to talk about them.
Speaker A:That, that, well, I'm great.
Speaker A:I'm grateful for that.
Speaker A:Michael, if you could erase one mistake from your past, what would it be?
Speaker B:I think, I think the biggest mistake that I ever made was probably not seeking out more help when I was running the Golf Channel, knowing how bad my mental health was at a time when I had $70 million of Joe Gibbs money on the Line to build a beautiful network.
Speaker B:I think that I wish I could have trusted people enough to help me.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And I think that that was the biggest mistake that I've ever made.
Speaker A:Okay, what's your favorite movie?
Speaker B:My favorite movie is going to be depending on the time that I see it.
Speaker B:I'm an e.
Speaker B:T.
Speaker B:Fan.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:I like it.
Speaker A:And what's the worst movie you ever watched?
Speaker B:I walked out after 10 minutes of Syria.
Speaker B:Was it called syriano with george clooney?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I don't watch bad movies.
Speaker B:You know, there's a model that works in writing a book.
Speaker B:A movie is that you've got 10 minutes to grab an audience.
Speaker B:You've got 10 pages to grab an audience.
Speaker B:And within that time frame, they're either going to stay for the entire movie and read the book or they're going to walk on out.
Speaker B:And in that particular case, I walk.
Speaker B:I think it's the only movie in my life that I've ever walked out on.
Speaker A:Okay, two last questions.
Speaker A:Michael, if you were on death row, what would your last meal be?
Speaker B:My last meal would be a big kahuna from jersey, Mike's.
Speaker B:Extra peppers, extra mushrooms.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker A:And this is your opportunity right now.
Speaker A:What would your message to the world be?
Speaker A:Mike whelan's message to the world.
Speaker B:I would say that each day try to make the world a better place to live.
Speaker B:And if you can do no good, please do no harm.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker A:Very good.
Speaker A:Michael j.
Speaker A:Whalen, what a pleasure this has been to finally.
Speaker A:We haven't met in person, but I can finally talk in person.
Speaker B:You got more out of me than only one other guy, and that's the guy who's celebrating his book release tonight.
Speaker B:Tucker.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, tucker does a great job, but, Mike, thank you.
Speaker B:My pleasure, Jeff.
Speaker B:It really was a lot of fun.
Speaker A:It's been a ball and it's been a ball to talk to you, and this will not be a one off occurrence, I guarantee you any.
Speaker B:Anytime we.
Speaker B:There's still so much to talk about.
Speaker B:Golf.
Speaker B:There's talk about at my advocacy with the mental health with the su.
Speaker B:With the cancer that we didn't get into very much.
Speaker B:So we've got another couple of shows.
Speaker B:If somebody bags you, you can always give me a call.
Speaker A:You got it.
Speaker A:You got it.
Speaker A:That's going to wrap it up for after hours here on grilling at the green.
Speaker A:We want to thank Mike whalen for being with us today.
Speaker A:What an interesting and wonderful conversation we had with him.
Speaker A:And we want to thank you the listeners.
Speaker A:We appreciate it so much.
Speaker A:So until next time, remember what we say.
Speaker A:Go out, have some fun, play golf and be kind.
Speaker A:Take care, everybody.
