Keith Hirshland, TV Producer and Author - Afterhours
Keith Hirschland, a pivotal figure in the history of the Golf Channel, joins JT to celebrate the network's 30-year anniversary and share behind-the-scenes stories from its early days. The conversation delves into the challenges and triumphs of launching a dedicated golf network, including humorous anecdotes about live broadcasts and the colorful personalities that shaped the channel's identity. Hirschland reflects on the impact of Tiger Woods on the sport and the channel's popularity, revealing how the excitement surrounding his debut transformed golf broadcasting. As they discuss the current state of the Golf Channel, Hirschland expresses a longing for more live tournament coverage and the essence of what originally captivated golf fans. The episode also touches on Hirschland's transition to producing for LIV Golf and the exciting future of the sport on new platforms.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Painted Hills Natural Beef
- Golf Channel
- ESPN
- NASCAR
- Nike
- Korn Ferry Tour
- LPGA Tour
- Fox Sports
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcript
Welcome to Grilling at the Green After Hours.
JT:The conversation that took place after the show ended.
JT:Hi, everybody, it's JT and this is a special version of Grilling at the Green.
JT:Grilling at the Green is brought to you in part by Painted Hills Natural Beef.
JT:Beef you can be proud to serve your family and friends.
JT:That's Painted Hill's Natural Beef.
JT:Welcome to After Hours here on Grilling at the Green.
JT:I'm Jeff Tracy, or as commonly known, JT or the fat guy with the hat on.
JT:And today we're talking with Keith Hirschland, formerly of the Golf Channel and Espen.
JT:And it's the 30 year anniversary of the Golf Channel and Keith was a really integral part in all of that.
JT:Did I want to talk about your books just for a second again here.
JT:Did your experiences on the way, I would say as an author dealing with people, help you get some of the character content?
JT:Except for mascara now, you know, motorcycle guy, that type of thing.
JT:But, you know, did that help you in developing the characters in your books?
Keith Hirschland:Oh, gosh, yeah.
Keith Hirschland:I mean, I, you know, I'm not that creative.
Keith Hirschland:I have to, you know, I have to.
Keith Hirschland:And thank God I've had so many colorful and interesting and well rounded, I've been able to begin contact with so many, you know, of those types of people in my life.
Keith Hirschland:Certainly not boring.
Keith Hirschland:And, and again, thank them and don't worry, you, you will not be spared.
Keith Hirschland:You know, thank them for when I reach out, say, hey, I hope you don't mind, but I'm planning on using your name as a character in, in one of my books.
Keith Hirschland:And, and to a person, even Frank Nabalo said, go ahead.
Keith Hirschland:So, you know, it's, it's definitely been, been a blessing to me to, to again have so many interesting people in my life that I can say, well, I can turn some of what he is really like into this, that or the other thing.
Keith Hirschland:Yeah, it's great fun, great fun.
JT:Well, with Frank, you could bribe him with a, you know, a ribeye, bone in ribeye and a glass of merlot.
JT:He'd let you do anything probably, you know, like that.
JT:What were the tough days like at the Golf Channel, Keith?
JT:I mean, you know, you guys are creating this and everybody's got a ton of enthusiasm with a little skepticism and fear mixed in because it's so new and you're doing this and you get the first few broadcasts kind of, you know, in the vault, you might say, and that's all good.
JT:And then the creative juices start flowing again and then of course, you want to be more exacting on the next ones because we all are very self critical.
JT:You know, I could have done this a little better with this timing.
JT:You know, those are just small things that you work on.
JT:But as you went forward, you probably had an occasional setback on something, camera went dark or whatever.
Keith Hirschland:Oh, yeah.
Keith Hirschland:I mean, I, I, I will say that we were lucky, we were lucky that the live tournament team was extremely fortunate in that.
Keith Hirschland:And I had Gary Stevenson say this to me.
Keith Hirschland:He was the chief operating officer of the Golf Channel in the beginning.
Keith Hirschland:And, and you know, he was, you know, when he worked for the NBA, worked for the PGA Tour, went on after he left Golf Channel to start his own sports marketing company and now he's a big honcho at Major League Soccer.
Keith Hirschland:But, you know, he told me one time, you know, I said, is there anything that, you know, we can be doing different or better?
Keith Hirschland:And he said, you know, I'm not worried about you.
Keith Hirschland:He said, I've got so many things back here in the building that we need to worry about that we have complete faith in your team and what you guys are doing out on the road, so keep doing it.
Keith Hirschland:And you know, you talk about tough times, you know, there, yeah, sure, there were always tough times.
Keith Hirschland:But yeah, it was, you know, I think back on like the day that, you know, one of the studio shows got canceled.
Keith Hirschland:It was called Golf Today and it was the precursor to our tournament coverage.
Keith Hirschland:It was like a pregame show and, you know, it just fell victim to budget cuts.
Keith Hirschland:And it was one of those, you know, really, really hard days at the network in the early days because friends that, you know, started this thing with you together and we're all in the same boat, rowing in the same direction.
Keith Hirschland:We're suddenly losing their jobs.
Keith Hirschland:And, you know, that that's no fun no matter when it happens or where it happens.
Keith Hirschland:You know, the other one was, and you mentioned Dottie Pepper during the, the bro.
Keith Hirschland:The, you know, the main, main part of our earlier conversation, and I love Dottie and Dottie is, you know, is, is a, is, is a the gold standard, one of the best in the business.
Keith Hirschland:And yes, you know, we worked together for a number of years and we were at the Solheim cup in Sweden and I don't, and we were, the US Team was up by a bunch and then started losing points and losing holes and losing points and holes to the point where it was looking like they may not win the Solon Cup.
Keith Hirschland:And at one time, one point after, I think it was Sherry Steinhauer missed a putt that would have won a hole or tied a hole.
Keith Hirschland:We went to commercial and we counted down the break.
Keith Hirschland:I had an associate director behind me counting down to Orlando when to go to commercial.
Keith Hirschland:10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.
Keith Hirschland:Way to beat.
Keith Hirschland:Way to beat.
Keith Hirschland:Way to beat.
Keith Hirschland:And in on the.
Keith Hirschland:I have the ability to talk to the announcers in their headsets to Dottie and Brian Hammonds.
Keith Hirschland:I said, choking effing dogs.
Keith Hirschland:And Dottie said, choking freaking dogs.
Keith Hirschland:And on we went.
Keith Hirschland:And about 10 minutes later, I had a executive from the Golf Channel come into the trailer and say, dottie has to apologize.
Keith Hirschland:And I said, what are you talking about?
Keith Hirschland:He said, dottie has to apologize.
Keith Hirschland:She.
Keith Hirschland:She just.
Keith Hirschland:She's.
Keith Hirschland:She's upset the entire United States Solhan cup team.
Keith Hirschland:And I said, I don't know what you're talking about.
Keith Hirschland:And he said on the air, she called him choking freaking dogs.
Keith Hirschland:And I said, what?
Keith Hirschland:And he said, yeah, on the air, Dottie called the team choking freaking dogs.
Keith Hirschland:And I said, Wayne.
Keith Hirschland:Guy's name was Wayne.
Keith Hirschland:I said, wayne, we were in commercial.
Keith Hirschland:He said, orlando didn't roll the break.
JT:Oh, crap.
Keith Hirschland:So Dottie.
Keith Hirschland:And again, she would have never said that hadn't I prompted her with my, you know, outburst.
Keith Hirschland:So all of a sudden, Dottie was public enemy number one on the U.S.
Keith Hirschland:solheim cup team, and she had to apologize.
Keith Hirschland:And to her credit, Jeff, and you know, we've been friends a long time, and, you know, she never once threw me under the bus, which it would have been okay with me if she had, because I would owned up to it.
Keith Hirschland:But she never once said.
Keith Hirschland:I was just repeating something that was said in my ear.
Keith Hirschland:I should.
Keith Hirschland:You know, she always took the high road.
Keith Hirschland:But again, that was like one of the.
Keith Hirschland:That was one of those times, like you mentioned that it was like.
Keith Hirschland:That was a low.
Keith Hirschland:One of the low points of my entire Golf channel.
Keith Hirschland:You know, 18 years at the Golf Channel.
JT:Yeah, those things can be haunting, like, forever.
JT:So that's.
JT:But there's.
JT:You got.
JT:I think those.
JT:Those points that.
JT:I'm sure you had enough of them.
JT:But.
JT:Yeah, I'm sure the good.
JT:The high points.
JT:Keith outweighed them.
JT:Oh, before the term.
JT:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
JT:It was good.
JT:How do you think the Golf Channel's doing now?
JT:Because they're getting.
JT:The reason I ask is, you know, they made the announcement, they're spinning it out of the big.
JT:The big group, and it's going to be set aside, and maybe it's going to be Sold.
JT:I mean, you never know what those things really are like till they sign on the dotted line and.
Keith Hirschland:Yep.
JT:You know, like that.
Keith Hirschland:Gosh.
Keith Hirschland:How do I think the Golf Channel is doing now?
Keith Hirschland:You know, I think.
Keith Hirschland:I think I.
Keith Hirschland:During this last handful of days of celebration of the 30 years, I think I posted on X that, you know, I hope it lasts another 30 years.
JT:Yeah.
Keith Hirschland:You know, I.
Keith Hirschland:Personally, for me, I watch a lot less of it than I used to.
Keith Hirschland:I wish that they would get back to showing, you know, more live Korn Ferry Tour golf.
Keith Hirschland:More live LPGA Tour golf.
JT:Right.
Keith Hirschland:You know, I think they've.
Keith Hirschland:I just.
Keith Hirschland:I still think most golf fans, when they turn on something called the Golf Channel, would prefer to watch live golf.
Keith Hirschland:And, you know, in the, in the, those early days when we were.
Keith Hirschland:We were starting out, we.
Keith Hirschland:We televised 14, you know, gosh, you name it.
Keith Hirschland:Nike, buy.com nationwide Corn Ferry Tour event, 15 to 18 LPGA Tour events, you know, so.
Keith Hirschland:But, you know, they.
Keith Hirschland:They've got a business model and.
Keith Hirschland:And they're, you know, they.
Keith Hirschland:They're doing what they think is right and sure, more power to them.
Keith Hirschland:But like I said, you know, I don't want it to go away.
JT:No, no, no, no, no.
JT:I just.
JT:Strictly because it, you know, they made the big announcement and they're splitting it off there.
JT:But I.
JT:I want to ask you this, though, and.
JT:And I think you probably just answered it a second ago.
JT:When they do live from the Masters and they do what, two hours, three hours, and they loop it, and they keep looping it, you know, throughout the day, like that.
JT:This is my opinion, and I have no say in the matter, but I'm just saying, I would think that instead of continually looping the talk part of the show, maybe they could again, find something with golf action in it, whether it's live or even if it's highlights of something that happened, you know, in the not too distant past.
JT:Because you get on there and there's Rich and there's Brandle and then whoever else they bring in as the third wheel, you know, on.
JT:On the set.
JT:And they're constantly talking, and the interaction is good, and the analysis is good.
JT:I don't have, you know, that's not it.
JT:It's just like 12 hours of that stuff makes everybody go nuts.
JT:That's just my opinion.
Keith Hirschland:No, I hear you.
Keith Hirschland:I hear you.
Keith Hirschland:And I, you know, I mean, it's.
Keith Hirschland:Obviously there's, you know, you could be cynical.
Keith Hirschland:You could be a cynic, like I'm prone to be.
Keith Hirschland:And, you know, Kind of say, well, this is, you know, this is easy programming, it's cheap, doesn't cost them a thing.
Keith Hirschland:They do the first hour or first two hours or first three hours.
Keith Hirschland:That's, you know, there are costs involved in that.
Keith Hirschland:But then you can re Air that four times, which gives you 12 hours of programming and it doesn't cost you a penny.
Keith Hirschland:You know, I think the content is still pretty good.
Keith Hirschland:It's.
Keith Hirschland:Yeah, you know, it's one of the, one of the things that, that the Golf Channel has done and I know the, the producer and I think he's still producing that show.
Keith Hirschland:Matt Hagerty, he's really talented guy and you know, Rich is, Rich is rich Rich.
Keith Hirschland:You know, the guy is a, he's a machine.
Keith Hirschland:And like, or not like Brandle, you know, he does his homework, he does his analysis.
Keith Hirschland:He's good at it.
Keith Hirschland:And then like you say, I think that when it was, when it was Rich Brandle, Frank and David Duvall, or even if it was just Rich, Brandel and Frank, I thought those were their best shows because Frank and, and Brando would go back and forth a lot.
Keith Hirschland:Frank is never one not to speak his mind.
Keith Hirschland:I think sometimes now everybody's kind of singing from the same choir book, so it's a little less interesting.
Keith Hirschland:But it's still, you know, it's still one of the best things the network has ever done and still continues to do.
JT:And I don't know who built that set for him that they take to the live from deals like the Live from the Masters.
JT:And of course the way it's set up right behind the practice area, there's the site.
JT:I mean, it looks like a mosaic painted in the back or something like that.
JT:But their set, you know, is, is.
JT:I've been around a few sets in television and that's a very cool looking, clean, yep, you know, shiny, nice set.
JT:So I give them credit for that too.
JT:Of course, I look at production values and things like you do.
JT:So.
Keith Hirschland:Yeah, well, and that was one of the things that our dear friend Mike Whalen was such a genius at.
Keith Hirschland: ok back at that first show in: JT:Oh, sure.
Keith Hirschland:At the same time, those set designs and like the Golf Talk live set was a masterpiece.
Keith Hirschland:You know, the Golf Central set, all of that stuff that, you know, Mike's vision, you know, he turned that into reality.
Keith Hirschland:You know, it's a shame that, that he doesn't get the credit that he deserves for that.
Keith Hirschland:It's.
Keith Hirschland:He's kind of been lost in the shuffle.
Keith Hirschland:But I can honestly say, you know, there wouldn't have been a Golf Channel without Mike Whalen.
Keith Hirschland:And there wouldn't have been a Golf Channel without Joe Gibbs or, or Robert Greenway.
Keith Hirschland:And there wouldn't have been a Golf Channel.
Keith Hirschland: onto the scene in the fall of: Keith Hirschland: the Golf channel launched in: JT:Oh, yeah.
JT:Oh, yeah.
JT:Oh, yeah.
JT:Yeah.
JT:You know, I, I think the best comment, and I can say this because this is, this is part of the show that only goes out on the podcast.
JT:And I forget who it was.
JT:Maybe it was Eamon lynch or Amen, however you pronounce his name and that.
JT:And somebody had said, one of the younger guys said, I wish I could have gone head to head with Tiger.
JT:I'm paraphrasing, Keith.
JT:I wish I could have gotten head to head with Tiger in his heyday.
JT:And I think lynch said, the fuck you do.
Keith Hirschland:Right?
JT:Yeah.
JT:So I just remember that.
JT:And I was like, well, he's right because even on TV you could tell he was just mobbed.
JT:You know, he was, he was in a cocoon the whole time of, of fans 30ft deep on each side of the fairway and stuff.
JT:But I just remember the f.
JT:You do.
JT:And it's like, yeah, there you go.
Keith Hirschland:You know, it was, it was funny.
Keith Hirschland:I hope you don't mind me taking this on a little bit of a different tangent, but.
Keith Hirschland:No, no.
Keith Hirschland:You know, in 96, when he turned pro, we, we.
Keith Hirschland:The Golf Channel was fortunate to broadcast, I think five of the events that he played in.
Keith Hirschland:You know, he came out, he played in Milwaukee right off the bat.
Keith Hirschland:ESPN had that show.
Keith Hirschland:And then I remember my first experience with Tiger was at the what is now the John Deere Classic right at that time.
Keith Hirschland:It.
Keith Hirschland:What, I don't even think it was the Hardee's Classic.
Keith Hirschland:It was, know, Quad Quad City's Classic.
Keith Hirschland:And Tiger held the 54 hole lead.
Keith Hirschland:And we had, you know, he was so gracious and so giving of his time.
Keith Hirschland:He spent a couple of hours with us earlier in the week in a sit down interview, answered every question we had, you know, was, you know, available and, you know, let us get up close and personal to, you know, borrow an old phrase.
Keith Hirschland:And then he had the 54 hole lead in this golf tournament and at the time we, you know, we were on the air for I think three hours and maybe four, but they had teed off before we came on the air.
Keith Hirschland:So we had early cameras out there early to capture highlights.
Keith Hirschland:And I think it was the fourth hole, I may be mistaken on some of this.
Keith Hirschland:Like I said, it was 30 years ago.
Keith Hirschland:He made a quad unlike the fourth or the fifth hole.
Keith Hirschland:So before we even.
Keith Hirschland:It was all this build up and all this hype.
Keith Hirschland:And before we came on the air, he was basically out of the golf tournament.
Keith Hirschland:And Ed Fiore ended up winning that golf tournament.
Keith Hirschland:We saw Tiger again in Texas.
Keith Hirschland:We saw Tiger again at the BC Open in upstate New York.
Keith Hirschland:Tiger then went and played Las Vegas.
Keith Hirschland:He won that one on ESPN and won that one.
Keith Hirschland:So my dear friend and mentor Andy Young was producing and my other dear friend and mentor Steve Byme was directing that event for espn.
Keith Hirschland:So they got Tiger's first win.
Keith Hirschland:But then a couple weeks later he came to Disney, which was a Golf Channel event, and won that.
Keith Hirschland:So I actually produced Tiger's second PGA Tour victory.
Keith Hirschland:And then we never saw him again because the events we were doing that he played in that first year because he was just turning pro, never came back to.
JT:Yeah, yeah, well.
JT:But Keith, you've had a hell of a run here and now you're.
JT:Are you still doing live stuff?
Keith Hirschland:I am, I am.
Keith Hirschland:We're getting ready for league season number three.
Keith Hirschland:So I'll be off to Saudi Arabia in a couple of weeks.
JT:Well, tell all the folks in Riyadh hello.
JT:For me, I've been there.
JT:So.
JT:And they, and they just signed a deal with Fox.
Keith Hirschland:They did.
Keith Hirschland:Which is very exciting news.
JT:What I, I've been very busy and I'll confess to you, I had a knee replacement just about a month ago.
JT:And prior to that I was out of the country for a little bit, so I haven't really followed the details on that.
JT:Is that a really good thing, you think?
Keith Hirschland:I think it's a great thing.
Keith Hirschland:I mean, you know, Fox is, is, if not, you know, the number one, you know, sports network in the States.
Keith Hirschland:It's, I mean, they're all great.
Keith Hirschland:You know, cbs, NBC, all the major networks are great at covering sports.
Keith Hirschland:Fox.
Keith Hirschland:Fox has a particular style and a particular kind of star driven philosophy that I think the league is, is ready to partner with them on.
Keith Hirschland: and Big Fox throughout: Keith Hirschland:So we're very, very excited about the partnership and.
Keith Hirschland:And working with all those talented people over there.
Keith Hirschland:I don't know a lot of the details either.
Keith Hirschland:It just got announced, so I'm just really excited for the opportunity to bring the league to.
Keith Hirschland:To more fans.
JT:Are you going to be producing those?
Keith Hirschland:I am.
JT:Good for you.
JT:Congratulations.
Keith Hirschland:Yeah.
Keith Hirschland:Knock on wood, at least.
Keith Hirschland:First one.
JT:Well, expect a Fox Sports hat from you or something, Keith.
Keith Hirschland:You got it.
Keith Hirschland:All right, I'll get one.
Keith Hirschland:I'll get one for both of us.
JT:So once again, we've been talking with Keith Hirschland.
JT:If you haven't caught on to that part yet, you must have been asleep for the first hour.
JT:Keith, was.
JT:Were you the.
JT:Would you call yourself the first producer at Golf Channel?
JT:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
JT:Keith was there, and he was there for a long time, and now he's working with Liv.
JT:But also he's an author, so go to Keith Hirschland.com to check out his books.
JT:You'll recognize some of the names in his books.
JT:I will tell you that.
JT:And it's all good.
JT:So, Keith, I want to thank you for being with us today.
Keith Hirschland:Oh, it's been my pleasure.
Keith Hirschland:It's great catching up.
Keith Hirschland:It's been too long, and we got to do this again.
JT:Oh, we will.
JT:We will.
JT:We're gonna get out of here.
JT:I hope you all have a good weekend.
JT:Enjoy the.
JT:The snow if you're in those parts of the country.
JT:If not, just enjoy the cold and the wet.
JT:It's winter, so go out, play some golf.
JT:Go to Keith's website and order a book or two.
JT:They're really.
JT:They're great reads.
JT:And we'll be back next week, so go out there, take care, and be kind.
