Hughes Norton - Tigers first agent Encore
Hughes Norton, a prominent sports agent, shares insights from his new book, "Rainmaker," which chronicles his experiences working in the world of professional golf, including his time with iconic clients like Tiger Woods and Greg Norman. The episode delves into the glamorous yet challenging lifestyle of a sports agent, highlighting the intense pressure to deliver results and the implications of personal relationships in the industry. Norton reflects on pivotal moments in his career, including his unexpected firings by both Tiger Woods and Mark McCormick, which reshaped his perspective on success and fulfillment. He emphasizes the importance of creativity and resilience in navigating the competitive landscape of sports management, drawing parallels between his journey and the evolution of the PGA Tour. Listeners are treated to behind-the-scenes stories that reveal the human side of high-stakes negotiations and the deep connections formed with clients over the years.
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Painter Hills Natural Beef
- Oregon Crab Commission
- Golf News Network
- Westin dealerships
- Gatorade
- IMG (International Management Group)
- ABC Television Network
- Capital Cities Broadcasting
- Oregon Dungeness crab
- Nike
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcript
It's time for Grilling at the Green.
Jeff Tracy:Join Jeff Tracy as he explores the golfing lifestyle and tries to keep it in the short grass for the hackers, new sweepers and turf spankers.
Jeff Tracy:Here's Jeff.
Host:Everybody.
Host:Welcome to Grilling at the Green here based in Portland, and we've got stations all around and I'm not going to run through that list for you.
Host:And then also the Golf News Network.
Host:We thank you for spending this time with us.
Host:Very fortunate today.
Host:We've got Hughes.
Host:Excuse me, we've start over.
Host:We're very fortunate today.
Host:We've got Hughes Norton.
Host:He's a super agent.
Host:If you don't know who he is, we're going to get into that.
Host:His brand new book's been out about a week called Rainmaker.
Host:This segment happens to be brought to you by Painter Hills Natural Beef, Beef the way nature intended, and also the Oregon Crab Commission.
Host:From seed to plate, if you've never had Oregon Dungeness crab, I'm pretty sure Hughes probably has.
Host:You got to try it.
Host:So check it out.
Host:The Oregon Crab Commission.
Host:Well, welcome Hughes Norton.
Host:How are you?
Hughes Norton:Thanks, Jeff, I'm fine.
Hughes Norton:You're making me hungry there.
Hughes Norton:Stop it.
Host:Well, I happen to do another syndicated show called Barbecue Nation, so, you know, I'm a, I'm kind of a foodie guy.
Host:I, I did my due diligence here.
Host:I read your book.
Host:I loved your book.
Host:So I'm going to just jump right in and, and ask you some questions and then we'll take a run at it here.
Host:You know, in the book, you talk about growing up.
Host:You had two strong passions, sports and communications.
Host:Do you think if you'd chosen the media, your life would be a little different today?
Hughes Norton:Completely different, Jeff.
Hughes Norton:In fact, we talk about it in the book.
Hughes Norton:I had two job offers coming out of Harvard Business School.
Hughes Norton:One was to go to work for the father of sports marketing and Sports Management, Mark McCormick at International Management Group.
Hughes Norton:And the other was to become executive assistant to a guy named Tom Murphy.
Hughes Norton:And I know your radio and TV background.
Hughes Norton:You'll recognize that name.
Hughes Norton:He founded Capital Cities Broadcasting, which went on to great fame, and they actually bought the ABC Television Network and eventually the company sold for billions and billions and billions.
Hughes Norton:So it's the road not taken in life.
Hughes Norton:You know, you never know what would have happened.
Hughes Norton:But I'll tell you one thing, I'd be a lot better off financially had I joined Cap Cities and stuck there for 10 years or so.
Host:Undoubtedly.
Host:Undoubtedly.
Host:You know, you, you talk about in the book, too.
Host:I I.
Host:I loved one of the things, it's right at the front of the book when you talk about your father's little nuggets.
Host:And he, he said never feel bad about being alone because you're always in good company.
Host:And that seems to have stayed with you on your journey.
Host:Do you these little things that your father told you kind of sparsely and maybe your ROTC training helped you harness your drive to succeed.
Hughes Norton:I don't think that particular thing that he shared with me did.
Hughes Norton:But.
Hughes Norton:But I had occasion, as you'll see in the book all the way through, to reflect back on those words because I was alone a lot.
Hughes Norton:I was alone after my wife divorced me.
Hughes Norton:I was alone after Greg Norman fired me.
Hughes Norton:I was alone after Tiger fired me and then after Mark McCormick fired me.
Hughes Norton:Those words sort of resonated with me along the way.
Hughes Norton:But you know, my dad didn't make that up.
Hughes Norton:I'm sure he heard that from someone or someone famous had first said that.
Hughes Norton:But they definitely stuck with me throughout an up and down and up and then back down career.
Host:Well, you know this book is really the gist of it is about not only your life but working for McCormick and what did Sports Illustrated calling the most powerful man in sports.
Host:And you talked about and you just mentioned it, your first encounter was at Harvard.
Host:How big of an impression Did Mark McCormick really hit you with the first time you ever actually physically saw him and heard him speak?
Hughes Norton:Gigantic.
Hughes Norton:We had a course about entrepreneurs and Mark came to the class discussion and listened to all the young MBA bucks talk about what was in the case and talk about img.
Hughes Norton:And then he got up in front of the class and spoke for 15 or 20 minutes and took questions.
Hughes Norton:He was a riveting presence, good looking guy, about six five, blonde, kind of commanded the room and talked about this amazing world that none of us at that time in the nineteen early seventies had ever heard of before that sports management was an industry.
Hughes Norton:You know, he started Jeff with Arnold Palmer and then signed Jack Nicklaus and Gary Players.
Hughes Norton:That's not a bad playing hand to start out with.
Host:Right.
Hughes Norton:And then he.
Hughes Norton:And he built the company from there.
Hughes Norton:But I was fascinated.
Hughes Norton:I couldn't believe that this was a possible job.
Hughes Norton:And I went up to him after class and he said send me a letter.
Hughes Norton:And one thing led to another and I was lucky enough to go to work for him as his executive assistant.
Host:Would you say, Hughes, that he actually created that industry of sports management and agents?
Host:I mean was he the guy with the impetus?
Host:I mean there was other people out there.
Host:But it seems like McCormick just said, in Tiger's words, hello, world, and he just grabbed a hold of it.
Hughes Norton:Yeah.
Hughes Norton:We have a sidebar in the book, Jeff, which is fascinating and well deserved, I might add, about a fellow named Fred Corcoran, who was really, if you drill down to it, the first sports agent.
Hughes Norton:Of course, he didn't call himself that at the time.
Host:Right.
Hughes Norton:But Fred.
Hughes Norton:Fred Corcoran started out in the 50s, maybe even the late 40s, organizing what was then a sort of scattershot list of a group of tournaments that wasn't even the pro tour in those days.
Hughes Norton:And he.
Hughes Norton:He had two very interesting clients in his career.
Hughes Norton:And we talk about this.
Hughes Norton:The first was Sam Snead.
Hughes Norton:Fred Corcoran recommended him.
Hughes Norton:And the second was Ted Williams because Fred was based in Boston and became friendly with, you know, what many people think is the greatest hitter baseball's ever seen, and actually organized some golf matches between Ted Williams and Sam Snead back in the day.
Hughes Norton:Can you imagine that?
Hughes Norton:That would be fun to watch.
Hughes Norton:It was always the joke between those two on one of the.
Hughes Norton:One of the shows that.
Hughes Norton:That Fred produced, arguing which was the harder game, you know, baseball or golf.
Hughes Norton:And Ted would.
Hughes Norton:Ted would say to Sam, Sam, hitting a fastball at 95 miles an hour, you have no idea.
Hughes Norton:Hitting is the hardest thing in the world.
Hughes Norton:And Sam would say, ted, you're wrong.
Hughes Norton:And Ted said, why?
Hughes Norton:And Sam said, in our sport, we got to go play our foul balls.
Host:What was.
Host:What was working for McCormick like?
Host:I mean, you get out of school, you get $13,000.
Host: Even by: Hughes Norton:Well, you think.
Hughes Norton:Yeah, you think about today, kids coming out of Harvard Business School, I think, are pushing 200 grand a year starting salary.
Hughes Norton:And, okay, it was 50 years ago, but still started at 13,500.
Hughes Norton:He made sure that my starting offer was a little bit below the class average at that time, which was 14,000.
Hughes Norton:That was Mark always negotiating.
Hughes Norton:And he was the most amazing guy, Jeff, I've ever met.
Hughes Norton:He was brilliant.
Hughes Norton:He was the hardest worker of anybody I ever encountered.
Hughes Norton:And passed that trait onto all of us in senior positions at img.
Hughes Norton:We became the same.
Hughes Norton:He was two steps ahead of the competition all along the way.
Hughes Norton:And his mind, he had such imagination.
Hughes Norton:And.
Hughes Norton:And it was.
Hughes Norton:It was fascinating, really.
Hughes Norton:A wonderful ride in a.
Hughes Norton:In a career, in something that's really fun sports.
Hughes Norton:Who wouldn't want to work in sports?
Hughes Norton:Right?
Host:Right.
Host:What.
Host:But, you know, Hughes, to think up those things to be Creative enough to be sitting at your desk or in a car, an airplane, where it doesn't matter where it happens and you come up with stuff like why couldn't we get Gatorade to do something with Tiger?
Host:Or you know, I'm just making things up now, but the, the, the, the concept of an idea to put something together and then IMG Mark yourself.
Host:All of a sudden it starts to take shape.
Host:I mean, the impetus of those ideas, you have to be pretty free flowing in your thinking to connect the dots, I would think.
Hughes Norton:Yeah, just creativity and imagination is, it definitely helps, Jeff.
Hughes Norton:You know, it comes down to selling.
Hughes Norton:There's selling in every single profession.
Hughes Norton:You have to sell your podcast.
Hughes Norton:You know, we had to sell our clients.
Hughes Norton:You have to be, you have to be knowledgeable, you have to be able to communicate.
Hughes Norton:You know, if you're going to write a proposal to Gatorade, as you just mentioned, you have to be able to sell them on the idea that affiliating with Tiger would really be a good idea.
Hughes Norton:You have to work hard, you have to, you have to be resilient.
Hughes Norton:You know, you get turned down a lot in sales, but whatever field you're in and you just have to keep plugging, keep keep going along.
Hughes Norton:And of course it helps in our business to, to have superstars as your clients.
Hughes Norton:And I had plenty of clients who never got to that stage.
Hughes Norton:But I was lucky enough to represent and recruit and sign and represent six golfers who became number one in the world.
Host:That's a big, well, that's pretty big to put on your business card.
Host:I'll just put it that way.
Host:That's pretty big.
Host:We're going to take a break.
Host:We're going to be back with Hughes Norton, whose new book Rainmaker, it's fascinating read over the years.
Host:I'll say this before we go to break.
Host:Over the years, you've heard little tidbits about stuff about working with Tiger or Norman or these things and the money and golf and all that.
Host:Well, Hughes kind of lays it all out for you.
Host:And that's why I say I would recommend this.
Host:Anyway, Hughes and I are going to take a break.
Host:We'll be right back.
Host:You're listening to Grilling at the Green.
JT:Hey everybody, JT here.
JT:You know, every week on Grilling at the Green we bring you a travel tip and that is brought to you by the Westin dealerships.
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Host:Welcome back to grilling.
Host:It's green here on the iHeart Golf News Network, among other places.
Host:I'm Jeff Tracy.
Host:Today we're talking with Hughes Norton, the author of the new book Rainmaker.
Host:He also had a little help from George Pepper on that, but we'll talk to George later on down the road.
Host:Hughes, this is the part of the show where I asked people to give us a golf travel tip.
Host:And I know you certainly traveled a lot.
Host:You probably logged a million miles in airplanes over the years.
Host:What would a travel tip be for just the everyday guy or lady that's taking a trip?
Hughes Norton:Well, this may be, you know, more of a well known thing than some hidden nugget, Jeff, but for sure if you love golf, you have to go to the British Isles and you can go to numerous parts of the British Isles if you just want to play in England.
Hughes Norton:There's so many great courses around London and up in northern England there's Ireland of course, which has a, just a fabulous eight or ten golf courses.
Hughes Norton:Take your, take your pick.
Hughes Norton:And of course there's the home of golf, Scotland.
Hughes Norton:And everybody in their life should go to St.
Hughes Norton:Andrews and play the old course.
Hughes Norton:You know, it was, it's the RNA headquarters building is sitting right there behind the 18th green.
Hughes Norton:It's an experience that, that everyone should have.
Hughes Norton:And if you really ambitious, I would urge you also sort of code number one on my list for golf travels would be Australia.
Hughes Norton:It's a very long trip, 12, 13 hour flight and so forth.
Hughes Norton:But it's a marvelous climate, wonderful friendly people.
Hughes Norton:Australians love Yanks and vice versa.
Hughes Norton:And the golf courses there, particularly in the Melbourne area, what they call the sand belt, are simply spectacular.
Host:Yeah, I've got to play down there before and I loved it.
Host:It was great.
Host:And yes, they're very friendly and go thirsty.
Host:That's what I'm going to tell people is go thirsty.
Hughes Norton:When you go, you can have a pint, you can have a lot of pints in either of those places.
Hughes Norton:Scotland, Australia.
Hughes Norton:Paul was saying after, after the round, let's, let's sit down and talk about it.
Host:I did get kind of hooked on port when I was in Australia though.
Host:Hughes, I will tell you that I came home and my wife, who wasn't my wife at the time, I said, we got to go to the liquor store.
Host:She goes, well, you got stuff at home?
Host:I said, no, I gotta get some port.
Host:She looked at me funny and I said, you'll see.
Host:Anyway, I want to thank the folks at Kia for our West Ikea number one Kia dealership in the Northwest for sticking with us on this and sponsoring the golf travel tips here.
Host:You know, it's interesting.
Host:As IMG grew and it rep more than just athletes.
Host:It.
Host:It repped like Margaret Thatcher and Oxford and started its own TV production company.
Host:And now, was there anything that IMG would not do?
Hughes Norton:Good question.
Hughes Norton:It must have seemed like that from the outside.
Hughes Norton:You think about this foursome of clients and how far afield they are from one another.
Hughes Norton:Margaret Thatcher is the first one you mentioned.
Hughes Norton:Derek Jeter, superstar Hall of Fame shortstop, the New York Yankees.
Hughes Norton:Serena Williams, probably the most dominant woman's tennis player, if not number one, certainly in the top two or three.
Hughes Norton:And Itzak Perlman, who was a classical musician of some refute.
Hughes Norton:And people say what?
Hughes Norton:Img?
Hughes Norton:I thought they were a sports company, right?
Host:No, I just found it fascinating as you went on in the book and you kind of laid those things out there.
Host:I went because I've dealt with IMG here locally at golf tournaments, bringing in.
Host:They actually took over the LPGA tournament here in Portland for a couple of years and they've subsequently given it back.
Host:But point being is I dealt with some of those guys.
Host:I knew some guys, local guys that went to work for IMG and they always seem to have their fingers in everything.
Hughes Norton:I would be remiss, Jeff, not to interrupt you, but Portland is the home, as you well know, one of my favorite people in golf, period.
Hughes Norton:And certainly one of my all time favorite clients, Peter Jacobson, who founded his own production company, as you guys well know, Peter Jacobson Productions.
Hughes Norton:They managed and ran golf events and special events and golf tournaments all around the country.
Hughes Norton:Peter is near and dear to me, like a little brother.
Hughes Norton:Loved working with him, loved representing him.
Hughes Norton:I was just on the phone with him yesterday about.
Hughes Norton:About some stuff.
Hughes Norton:We've stayed in touch.
Hughes Norton:Wonderful guy.
Hughes Norton:And I know, I know.
Hughes Norton:Very much loved in the Portland community.
Host:Oh, yeah, very much so.
Host:Very much so.
Hughes Norton:And his brother, his brother David, by the way, deserves a shout out.
Hughes Norton:David, Peter has always said to me his older brother David was a better player than I am.
Hughes Norton:That's what Peter said.
Hughes Norton:And David lost to Tiger woods in the semifinals of the Pacific Northwest Amateur.
Hughes Norton:Does that make sense?
Hughes Norton:Yep.
Hughes Norton:And it was.
Hughes Norton:It was when Tiger was at Stanford and David was, I think, two up on the 13th day.
Hughes Norton:And of course, Tiger being Tiger, did his usual thing and came back and beat him.
Hughes Norton:But David, tremendous, tremendous guy as well.
Hughes Norton:Love David.
Hughes Norton:And a fine player.
Host:David's been on the show.
Host:We had a.
Host:We had a couple nice visits with him on the show.
Host:He's a great guy.
Hughes Norton:I hope he's listening.
Hughes Norton:That's great.
Host:He probably will be.
Host:In fact, I'll let him know.
Host:I'll send him a note that said he.
Host:He made the.
Host:Made the cut on this show, too.
Host:So we'll do that.
Host:What was it like?
Host:We got a couple minutes, three minutes or so here.
Host:Hughes, what was it like to be around Mark McCormick on, if you will, a daily basis?
Hughes Norton:Let me pick the right descriptions or adverbs, adjectives.
Hughes Norton:Intimidating.
Hughes Norton:Just because of his intelligence, his drive, the way his mind works so quickly.
Hughes Norton:Inspiring.
Hughes Norton:He made you want to be better.
Hughes Norton:He was brilliant.
Hughes Norton:He was not much for small talk.
Hughes Norton:He cut right to the chase.
Hughes Norton:He always had something else that he had to.
Hughes Norton:Had to get on a plane and do or go somewhere and meet someone.
Hughes Norton:Dave Marr, who was a client of ours for years, very funny guy.
Hughes Norton:People were our age.
Hughes Norton:Jeff will remember Dave Marr, great TV commentator.
Hughes Norton:And, and Dave Mars said it best.
Hughes Norton:One day he said, let's face it, Mark is hard of listening.
Host:I get that.
Host:I get that.
Host:Yeah.
Host:It just seems like, you know, from what I gathered from the book, he was always, like you just said, always on the go, always had a meeting, always had to go, here, let me go talk to somebody else about another project, whatever.
Host:Did he ever shut it down for a day or two and take some time off?
Hughes Norton:He could relax in his own way.
Hughes Norton:His relaxation.
Hughes Norton:He loved what he did so much.
Hughes Norton:Yeah.
Hughes Norton:That his relaxation really was, was.
Hughes Norton:Was making the list of things that he couldn't wait to get to for tomorrow.
Hughes Norton:He was just, and this is a sort of a sidebar, but I, I submit to you.
Hughes Norton:I submit to you.
Hughes Norton:And I was this way.
Hughes Norton:And I'll bet you are.
Hughes Norton:Because.
Hughes Norton:Because, Because I loved radio, too.
Hughes Norton:You don't become successful in whatever field it is unless you really love what you're doing.
Hughes Norton:Or put another way, you know, you and I have both heard people over the years say if you love what you do, it doesn't.
Hughes Norton:It won't seem like work.
Hughes Norton:Right.
Hughes Norton:And that's the key.
Hughes Norton:And you think 90% or whatever, these stats we all read of the people who get up in the morning and go down to jobs that they hate.
Hughes Norton:I mean, it's sad, really, but Mark was the opposite.
Hughes Norton:Just so enthusiastic and so enthralled with everything he was doing.
Hughes Norton:And what's the Next great project.
Hughes Norton:And hey guys, what if we did this?
Hughes Norton:And it was, it was a whirlwind for sure with him.
Hughes Norton:He got up at 4:30 every morning, Jeff, and called, of course, at that hour it's 9:30 in, in Britain and it's 6:30 at night in Japan.
Hughes Norton:You know, he touched base with all the offices that we established around the world.
Hughes Norton:He would get in the car to go wherever he was, either down to the office in Cleveland, which he wasn't at very much, frankly, or whatever city he was in in the back of the limousine.
Hughes Norton:He always had a secretary there.
Hughes Norton:He was dictating memos, dictating let proposals.
Hughes Norton:He was just the most driven and most dynamic kind of entrepreneur the world has ever seen.
Host:Wow.
Host:We're going to take another break.
Host:We're going to be back with Hughes Norton talking about his new book, Rainmaker.
Host:We're going to get some really off the cuff remarks, I guarantee you from Hughes when we come back.
Host:Stay with us.
JT:Hey everybody, it's jt.
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Host:Foreign welcome back to Grilling at the Green.
Host:I'm jt.
Host:We thank you for listening on radio and on the podcasts and you can watch the live video here in a few days as we are not live video at that point.
Host:But we like to thank Painted Hills Natural beef, beef the way nature intended.
Host:And don't forget our partners on the barbecue side with Gorilla Grills.
Host:We appreciate them.
Host:We're Hughes.
Host:We've actually turned this show into a golfing lifestyle.
Host:Part of it is cooking and part of it is character interviews and profiles.
Host:And so that'll be coming out a little later this year on Golf News Network tv, which is already been cleared on a number of the cable platforms.
Host:So I thought I would share that with you.
Hughes Norton:Congratulations.
Hughes Norton:But let's talk about the important stuff.
Hughes Norton:When did, when do guests get a overnight shipment of all the food and barbecue that we're talking about here?
Host:Well, I do make it to Florida once in a while.
Host:I'll reach out to you and we'll cook.
Host:I don't know.
Host:My, my radio partner lives in Tampa.
Host:And I've got a lot of friends in Orlando.
Host:I don't know where you live in conjunction to that, but it can be done.
Host:It can be done.
Hughes Norton:Guess you're not coming to Cleveland anytime soon, are you, Jeff?
Host:No, but I have people I work with in Cleveland, so do that.
Host:Anyway, Mark, what I wanted to do was I wanted to throw out some names of some personalities that you either represent or represented or worked with.
Host:And I just wanted your initial, because you talk about all these people in the.
Host:But I wanted to get your first impressions.
Host:Okay, start with some fun stuff here.
Hughes Norton:Jim Nance, the most non celebrity celebrity of all time.
Hughes Norton:Whatever sport they play, whatever field, whether it's entertainment or music or whatever, the number one people invariably, inevitably, shall we say, become full of themselves.
Hughes Norton:And Jim, Jim Nance is the same humble, real sincere guy that he was the first day that he got a job in broadcasting.
Hughes Norton:Wonderful human being, cares about people.
Hughes Norton:If he meets you, Jeff, a year and a half later, you'll be coming out of an elevator, you'll bump into him and he'll say, hey, Jeff, how's it going?
Hughes Norton:He's just wonderful, wonderful guy.
Hughes Norton:Everything you've heard about him, I'm babbling too much.
Hughes Norton:I should have given one or two words.
Hughes Norton:But he's, he's, he's, he's the greatest.
Hughes Norton:One of, one of my great, most respected friends in this business.
Host:You know, I'll tell you a little sidebar story.
Host:Hughes.
Host:Gary Van Sickle, writer for Sports Illustrated, or used to be, and now he's a contributor.
Host:He comes on the show, we're friends, and he told me that Jim Nance called him on his birthday and they were just getting ready.
Host:They were like 10 minutes from going live from a playoff football playoff.
Host:I don't, I don't remember which game.
Host:It doesn't matter.
Host:And Gary said, jim, don't you have a, don't you have a game to get?
Host:He goes, I don't worry about that.
Host:Just I want to call you, wish you a happy birthday, you know, see what you're doing.
Host:Like that.
Host:And then five minutes later, he was live on cbs.
Hughes Norton:You know, so now that, that's, that's Jim.
Hughes Norton:And by the way, Gary Van Sickles, a friend did a great write up recently for the First Call, which is an email thing that comes out every week about Rainmaker.
Hughes Norton:He wrote up the book in very glowing terms.
Hughes Norton:And I just appeared with Gary on his podcast last Friday.
Host:Yeah, he's a good, good guy.
Host:Okay, next, Phil Nicholson.
Hughes Norton:Phil, well, certainly the greatest Lefty of all time, a quirky guy, has his own take on lots of things.
Hughes Norton:Was the most recently was the outspoken guy, before he went to live and took the 150 million or whatever it was, you know, was.
Hughes Norton:Was publicly complaining to his fellow players and to the press, if they'd listen, that the p.
Hughes Norton:And he wasn't far off that the PGA Tour had all this money that accumulated and was building all these fantastic, beautiful buildings on this campus in Ponte Vedra, Florida.
Hughes Norton:And why wasn't the talent, I.
Hughes Norton:E.
Hughes Norton:Phil and all the other players getting a bigger slice of this?
Hughes Norton:And of course, you've seen what's.
Hughes Norton:What's happened.
Hughes Norton:The PGA Tour, thanks to Liv, you know, competition always works, right?
Hughes Norton:And the PGA Tour now has bumped their purses way up to.
Hughes Norton:To compete against Liv.
Hughes Norton:So, yep, Marco Mara, good guy, you'll see in the book, kind of betrayed me.
Hughes Norton:Not that he's wasn't entitled to do so in his dealings with Tiger Woods.
Hughes Norton:The book traces how when we moved Tiger to Florida to save income tax because he was in California.
Hughes Norton:And I asked Mark because Tiger moved three houses down on the same street at a place called Isleworth in Florida.
Hughes Norton:And I asked Mark, I said, look, you don't have to do this, but would you do me a favor?
Hughes Norton:This kid's just starting on the Tour.
Hughes Norton:Somebody's got to show him the ropes.
Hughes Norton:I can't be near him every day.
Hughes Norton:You are.
Hughes Norton:And Mark said, hughes, it's an honor.
Hughes Norton:I'd love to do that.
Hughes Norton:I've heard so much about this kid.
Hughes Norton:And then in the end, fast forward a few years.
Hughes Norton:There's all kinds of evidence.
Hughes Norton:Mark has denied it, that.
Hughes Norton:That Mark was instrumental in saying to Tiger, hey, I.
Hughes Norton:I don't have Hughes as my guy anymore.
Hughes Norton:Why.
Hughes Norton:Why do you.
Host:Okay, who already talked about Jake a little bit, but if you were to wrap up Peter Jacobson in one word, what would it be?
Hughes Norton:Funniest player on the Tour ever.
Host:Absolutely.
Hughes Norton:And by that, I mean storytelling, imitating, you know, his.
Hughes Norton:His great natural skill of imitating the voice and even better, the swings of all the classic players.
Hughes Norton:When Peter does a clinic, he brings the house down.
Host:Oh, absolutely.
Host:We used to do Peter's party here in Portland.
Host:And I was.
Host:I didn't.
Host:I didn't do anything but attend.
Host:But it was always a great, fun event for, you know, three days.
Host:It was incredible.
Host:Speaking of somebody else from Portland, Phil Knight.
Hughes Norton:Phil Knight, one of the obviously most creative, successful people ever in the history of the hard goods business, the soft goods business, whatever.
Hughes Norton:You want to call shoes and closed.
Hughes Norton:They eventually got into golf clubs as well.
Hughes Norton:Mercurial, very different, arm's length kind of guy.
Hughes Norton:Genius, really.
Host:Couple more real quick.
Host:Greg Norman.
Hughes Norton:I called him the first rock star at golf, or golf's first rock star.
Hughes Norton:Sure, Jeff.
Hughes Norton:You remember this?
Hughes Norton:I mean, the guy is blonde, piercing blue eyes, broad shoulders, swashbuckling, funny, great sense of humor, Australian accent.
Hughes Norton:The media loved him.
Hughes Norton:He just commanded the room, whichever one he walked into.
Hughes Norton:Larger than life.
Host:And finally, Tiger.
Hughes Norton:Laser focused the game of golf.
Hughes Norton:Practicing, playing, competing, winning.
Hughes Norton:That was all he cared about.
Hughes Norton:The.
Hughes Norton:The outside income, as large as it was that we set up for him, was incidental.
Hughes Norton:Not important to him.
Hughes Norton:It was Golf 24 7.
Host:You talk about the correlation between Tiger and the Tour success.
Host:He basically said Fincham only had to keep the car between the, the, the white lines.
Host:I'm paraphrasing here, but you had a big part to do with that as far as bringing that income and getting that started.
Host:I mean, Tiger went from a, an amateur to $60 million in income in just a very short time.
Host:Do you think the Tour actually has stayed on that and that path?
Host:You know, Fincham's no longer there.
Host:I get that.
Host:But also because Tiger is, you know, on the 18th tee of his career, as you might say.
Host:Are they, Are they still dependent upon that?
Hughes Norton:Actually, Peter was the one that came up with a line who said, beeman, you know, put the Mercedes together.
Hughes Norton:All Tim had to do was, was just keep his foot on the gas and we talk about this.
Hughes Norton:I'll digress for a second, Jeff, because I think golf fans will find this very interesting.
Hughes Norton:The book has three narrative threads.
Hughes Norton:My story as an agent with, as you've referenced all the behind the scenes stuff which.
Hughes Norton:Which people find very interesting because there's stories in there you've never heard about Greg, about Tiger, about Nancy Lopez, Curtis Strange, and a lot of the other people that I work with.
Hughes Norton:But at the same time, we chronicle the growth of professional golf.
Hughes Norton:And hats off to Dean Beeman.
Hughes Norton:He does not receive the credit he deserves.
Hughes Norton:And we go through it year by year.
Hughes Norton:What he did to change the PGA Tour from what it was when I went out there in the early 70s, really a mom and pop operation to this billion dollar behemoth that it's become.
Hughes Norton:And the third narrative and we've touched on it is sports management.
Hughes Norton:Mark McCormick invented this industry.
Hughes Norton:And today people are understandably sick of agents.
Hughes Norton:There's too many agents.
Hughes Norton:But back then there were none.
Hughes Norton:And Mark laid the groundwork and created the industry.
Hughes Norton:And so we traced the history of img.
Hughes Norton:Again, that's never been chronicled.
Hughes Norton:It's amazing to me that no one's written the history of img.
Hughes Norton:And it should be a five or six hundred page book because of the breadth of clients that you referenced.
Hughes Norton:We were going through.
Hughes Norton:We represented the Pope at one point.
Hughes Norton:Seriously.
Hughes Norton:So that book's never been written, and we weren't trying to write that book, but there was a lot about Mark and how IMG grew and some of the growing pains and things we did right and things we did wrong.
Hughes Norton:So the three elements are all in there.
Hughes Norton:For people who love golf, I think it's.
Hughes Norton:I'm too close to it, but most people who have read it find it fascinating.
Host:I loved it.
Host:I loved every page of it.
Host:We're going to take a break and I'm going to come back with the most pressing question for Hughes Norton right after this.
Host:Don't go away.
JT:Hey, everybody, J.T.
Host:Here.
JT:If you need something to practice with in the inclement weather, try Birdie ball.
JT:Go to birdieball.com, check out the actual Birdie balls, their packages, their putting greens, which I happen to have a couple of those, and they work great.
JT:Birdieball.com.
Host:Welcome back to Grilling.
Host:It's green.
Host:I'm JT.
Host:You can hear us on all the platforms, a bunch of radio stations.
Host:You can go to our website and find those and of course, YouTube and all those things.
Host:We're talking with Hughes Norton, whose new book, Rainmaker, it's been out about what, 10 days, 12 days, something like that?
Hughes Norton:It's been out exactly right.
Hughes Norton:It's been out nine days, jt.
Hughes Norton:And I'm happy to report that since the day it came out, we've been number one on Amazon's best new books in golf.
Host:Excellent.
Hughes Norton:And they have a whole other category called the entertainment category of books.
Hughes Norton:And I had never seen that before.
Hughes Norton:And Simon and Schuster, our publisher, sent that to me on day one, and if you can believe this, we were number one, two and three, hardcover Kindle and audio version of the book, which I recorded in the entertainment category.
Hughes Norton:Now, behind us are all these books about Netflix and movies and stuff.
Hughes Norton:So we're just like, wow, we can't believe.
Hughes Norton:We can't believe it.
Hughes Norton:It's really.
Hughes Norton:It's been a bestseller.
Hughes Norton:It's great.
Host:What with all the ups and downs in your career and that you've written about and your dealings with.
Host:With the actual clients and your dealings with Mark and.
Host:And you touch a lot on your personal life, your divorce and, and this and that.
Host:What's the one thing that you think that affected you most over all those years?
Hughes Norton:Just a lifestyle, I would say, Jeff.
Hughes Norton:You know, a sports agent's job seems very glamorous from the outside, but let me tell you, you get tired of forever living a road trip.
Hughes Norton:Yeah.
Hughes Norton:Airplanes and hotels.
Hughes Norton:We were always in pursuit of the next superstar in whatever sport it was and chasing the can't miss prospects.
Hughes Norton:And often the can't miss prospects do miss hearing from clients on sort of a regular basis that didn't really appreciate what you'd done for them.
Hughes Norton:The famous line, what have you done for me lately?
Hughes Norton:Right.
Hughes Norton:And then finally toward the end, you know, img, so powerful and so dominant in our industry, IMG kind of became a four letter word.
Hughes Norton:So toward the end of my career, I found myself defending the firm that I worked for all the time.
Hughes Norton:And that's no fun on any sort of regular basis.
Host:No.
Host:Do you miss it?
Hughes Norton:You know, I can tell you I don't.
Hughes Norton:It was kind of shocking the way it ended for me.
Hughes Norton:And we go into that in the book.
Hughes Norton:I think people will find that very interesting.
Hughes Norton:Being fired by Tiger and then three months later by the only guy I had ever worked for, Mark McCormick, after 30 years.
Hughes Norton:But from that moment on, I really don't.
Hughes Norton:It took me a while.
Hughes Norton:You know, when you're retired all of a sudden and you're not planning for it, I would get up every day for better part of a year and look at the yellow pad and say, okay, what have I got to do today?
Hughes Norton:And I'd say to myself, wait, you don't have to do anything.
Host:What do you do now, Hughes?
Hughes Norton:I've just been spending a lot of time with my kids, my grandkids.
Hughes Norton:I have three of them out in Colorado.
Hughes Norton:Love going to see them, playing golf with friends, traveling around a bit.
Hughes Norton:I stay in touch with, with some of our clients, not so much Greg and Tiger, but people like Bill Rogers, Peter Jacobson, you know, Curtis Strange.
Hughes Norton:We've been all friends, friends for a long time.
Hughes Norton:And you go through so many things in their lives for as long as I did.
Hughes Norton:You, you're close to them, whether you, whether you plan to continue to be or not.
Host:Don't you kind of become their, what's the word I'm looking for?
Host:Their muse almost, in a way, when they're, when they're, hey, Hughes, I got a problem with this.
Host:Or, hey, Hughes, what do you think about this?
Host:Or, you know, it could.
Host:I'm assuming it could come from any direction on any subject.
Hughes Norton:You're very perceptive.
Hughes Norton:Yeah, Some of the guys still, still do that.
Hughes Norton:Peter, for example, calls and, and, and we, we have those sort of discussions all the time.
Hughes Norton:And remember, I'm eight, 10 years older than these guys, so I'm still sort of, hey, you know, the, the partially wise old man, maybe.
Host:Well, that does come with wisdom.
Host:I mean, agen wisdom.
Host:They're kind of correlated there.
Host:Real quick, we do a segment Hughes called After Hours, which is kind of some fun stuff.
Host:So when we wrap up the regular show, please stay with us here.
Host:But what's on the horizon now for Hughes Norton?
Hughes Norton:Well, I'm, if I'm lucky, three quarters of the way through, I guess maybe I'm on the 12th or 13th hole.
Hughes Norton:Yeah, Jeff.
Hughes Norton:Maybe less to go than that.
Hughes Norton:And that was part of the sort of serendipitous timing of this book.
Hughes Norton:I woke up, I was 75 years old.
Hughes Norton:It was 50 years since I joined IMG.
Hughes Norton:It was 25 years since both Tiger and McCormick fired me and my great friend George Pepper.
Hughes Norton:And we haven't said enough about my collaborator.
Hughes Norton:George had always been my favorite golf writer.
Hughes Norton:He was the editor of golf magazine for 25 years and he knew me.
Hughes Norton:We negotiated against each other, we played golf together.
Hughes Norton:And it enabled him to write very authentically in my voice.
Hughes Norton:Jeff which is really important when you're writing an autobiography.
Hughes Norton:A stranger can't do that.
Hughes Norton:But George is, he's, he's the editor of Links magazine to this day, writes a column in that quarterly publication which I promise you will make you laugh every time you read it.
Hughes Norton:He's that good and he just made this book flow.
Hughes Norton:And if we, if the book's successful, if we, if we do get lucky enough to be a bestseller one day, you know, tremendous amount of credit goes to George.
Host:Absolutely.
Host:And I think you're on the right track there.
Host:Hughes Norton.
Host:The book is Rainmaker.
Host:It's there in the left hand bottom of your screen.
Host:Pull it over in front of you there, would you, Hughes?
Host:And it's Super Agent Hughes Norton and the Money Grab Explosion of Golf From Tiger to Live and Beyond.
Host:It's a fascinating read and like Hughes just said, it gives you some behind the scenes stuff that maybe you thought happened but you weren't sure or things you'd never heard of.
Host:But Hughes was there when it was going on and he shares that with you.
Host:Hughes, I want to thank you for your time being on grilling at the Green Man.
Hughes Norton:Jeff A great privilege people can get this on Amazon and I think pretty much every bookstore.
Hughes Norton:I hope Portland is stocking some for the many golf fans there.
Host:I'm almost guarantee you that it's at Powell's Bookstore.
Host:It's one of the biggest privately owned books companies in the world, and they take up city block or so, so they've actually got a couple, three locations, so I'm pretty sure it's there, but.
Hughes Norton:Wonderful.
Host:We're gonna do that anyway.
Host:We are gonna get out of here.
Host:Hughes and I are gonna do after hours after this.
Host:We thank you all for listening.
Host:Have a great week.
Host:Go out there, play some golf.
Host:And most of all, be kind.
Host:Take care, everybody.
Jeff Tracy:Grilling at the Green is produced by JTSD Productions, llc in association with Salem Media Group.
Jeff Tracy:All rights reserved.
