Gary Van Sickle - Golf Writer/End of Year Review
As the year comes to a close, Jeff Tracy and Gary Van Sickle delve into the significant changes and events that have shaped the golfing landscape in 2023. They discuss the PGA Tour's efforts to adapt to shifting audience preferences, highlighting the growing importance of digital media and the struggles traditional broadcasts face in retaining viewers. The conversation touches on the impact of LIV Golf and the fluctuating dynamics of player popularity, emphasizing how the sport's appeal can hinge on a few standout personalities. Jeff and Gary also explore the complexities surrounding the Ryder Cup and the growing trend of players seeking financial incentives, questioning the motives behind such decisions. With humor and insight, they reflect on the state of golf and what the future may hold as the sport navigates these evolving challenges.
Takeaways:
- The PGA Tour is adapting to changing media landscapes by collaborating with podcasters to reach younger audiences.
- Golf viewership is declining due to increased competition from streaming and online content options.
- Match play formats, such as the Ryder Cup, offer a more engaging viewing experience than traditional stroke play.
- The PGA Tour’s approach to event scheduling has become more scattered, affecting audience familiarity and engagement.
- Players' increasing focus on financial rewards may detract from the competitive spirit of events like the Ryder Cup.
- Women in golf face unique challenges in balancing careers with family, leading to shorter professional timelines.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Westin
- Snell Golf
- Painted Hills
- Oregon Crab Commission
- Amazon
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcript
It's time for grilling at the Green.
Narrator:Join Jeff Tracy as he explores a golfing lifestyle and tries to keep it in the short grass.
Narrator:For the hackers, new sweepers and turf spankers, here's Jeff.
Jeff Tracy:Hey, everybody.
Jeff Tracy:Welcome to grilling.
Jeff Tracy:It's Green.
Jeff Tracy:I'm jt.
Jeff Tracy:How is your golf game?
Jeff Tracy:How was your golf year?
Jeff Tracy:If it was like mine, it was kind of nondescript, but a lot of stuff happening on the pro level right now, and I've asked our friend of the show and good buddy Gary Van Sickle to give us a year in review.
Jeff Tracy:So how are you?
Gary Van Sickle:I'm great.
Gary Van Sickle:The older I get, the harder it is.
Gary Van Sickle:Remember what happened during the year, Jeff?
Gary Van Sickle:Do you have that problem?
Jeff Tracy:It's getting there.
Jeff Tracy:It's getting there.
Jeff Tracy:I find myself walking from one room to the other and going, why did I come in here?
Jeff Tracy:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Gary Van Sickle:It's like, if you remember why, then you're still okay.
Jeff Tracy:I'm still okay.
Jeff Tracy:Okay.
Jeff Tracy:I'll let you know when I.
Jeff Tracy:If I remember, I'll let you know.
Gary Van Sickle:That's it.
Jeff Tracy:Yeah.
Jeff Tracy:So we talked about a little bit before we started this.
Jeff Tracy:A lot of interesting stuff happening, a lot of changes in the guys tour, the PGA Tour out there changing from, you know, different elevated events and different ways you qualified, cutting down on the numbers in the tournaments, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Jeff Tracy:But one thing I want to go after right at the top here, they announced this about a week or two ago that they were banding together with, I think it was four or five different podcasters to give them access.
Jeff Tracy:They don't get any money out of it to give them access.
Jeff Tracy:And I'm not sure the reasoning behind that, honestly.
Jeff Tracy:I mean, some of these guys got great shows.
Jeff Tracy:They're funny and all that, and a couple of them, I scratch my head, but do you think that's kind of the tour trying to reach out to younger people or trying to grasp an audience they've lost a big part of?
Gary Van Sickle:It's an acknowledgment that the mainstream media is dead.
Gary Van Sickle:Television and movies are circling the drain, just like magazines and newspapers did.
Gary Van Sickle:I know it sounds crazy, but it's already happened.
Gary Van Sickle:My wife and I just, the other night watched Big Red, the Christmas movie with the rock.
Gary Van Sickle:It's actually pretty good.
Gary Van Sickle:I was pleasantly surprised.
Jeff Tracy:Yeah, me too.
Gary Van Sickle:You watch it on Amazon prime for free?
Gary Van Sickle:It's.
Gary Van Sickle:It's on Amazon prime for free, Right?
Gary Van Sickle:Movie's been out, what, a week?
Jeff Tracy:Two weeks, right?
Gary Van Sickle:It's already on Amazon Prime.
Gary Van Sickle:You know why?
Gary Van Sickle:Because that's where the viewers are not as much in the movie theaters as they used to.
Gary Van Sickle:You know, I people, I don't have the numbers in front of me of how much the TV ratings are down for golf.
Gary Van Sickle:I know for the NBA, they're down like another 28 this year.
Gary Van Sickle:They're way down.
Gary Van Sickle:But part of both of those, and those aren't the same reasons, but part of both of them is there's fewer people watching TV because the Internet and all the various ways to do that, streaming, that's where the viewers have gone.
Gary Van Sickle:That's where the money is going.
Gary Van Sickle:So they're trying to tour, is trying to get ahead of it a little bit by.
Gary Van Sickle:We need exposure and streaming on the Internet.
Gary Van Sickle:And how can we get that?
Gary Van Sickle:Well, here's five people on the Internet who have already got viewership, so let's go right to them.
Gary Van Sickle:Now.
Gary Van Sickle:I don't know if any of that's going to work, if it's going to be good viewing or bad viewing, but that's the thinking.
Gary Van Sickle:And so it's probably a good idea to try it.
Gary Van Sickle:I don't know if they picked the right people.
Gary Van Sickle:We won't know that until we see some of the shows.
Gary Van Sickle:And I don't know.
Gary Van Sickle:I don't have Netflix, so I only saw like the first episode of the PGA Tour documentary.
Gary Van Sickle:And, you know, if you're counting on Justin Thomas and Jordan Spieth's acting skills and chit chat to make something interesting, you're.
Gary Van Sickle:You're in for a long day.
Gary Van Sickle:I'd like to sell you some land and in Brooklyn, you know.
Jeff Tracy:Right.
Gary Van Sickle:I thought it was a.
Gary Van Sickle:And I'm not the right guy to ask because I've been on tour, you know, what goes on behind the scenes, to me is nothing magical.
Gary Van Sickle:I already know what's.
Gary Van Sickle:What it's like behind the scenes.
Jeff Tracy:Right.
Gary Van Sickle:I'm not interested in that.
Gary Van Sickle:Maybe the average person is, but I had a hard time staying awake for an hour.
Gary Van Sickle:So I don't know how the rest of that documentary went, but it's.
Gary Van Sickle:It's tough to get behind the scenes when people know they're on camera.
Gary Van Sickle:They're always going to be trying to perform and present an image and present their brand, but they're not professional actors, so it probably won't end well.
Gary Van Sickle:We'll see.
Jeff Tracy:I think two things is just me, but I think one, the tour's a day late and a dollar short on this.
Gary Van Sickle:Well, I wouldn't argue that.
Jeff Tracy:Yeah.
Jeff Tracy:And because you were talking about the ratings, the broadcast ratings are down like 30, 40%, because the broadcasts themselves are kind of scattered.
Jeff Tracy:You know, when you and I were starting out in this crazy world, you went to NBC, CBS or abc, and mostly CBS and NBC for golf.
Jeff Tracy:That's what you did.
Gary Van Sickle:And, Jeff, you knew which tournaments are on which network because they were always the same every year.
Gary Van Sickle:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Gary Van Sickle:And now it's changed so much.
Gary Van Sickle:You.
Gary Van Sickle:You know, you can't even guess.
Gary Van Sickle:Flip a coin to guess which one they're on.
Jeff Tracy:The only couple that you can do that with is the Masters on CBS and the Open on NBC.
Jeff Tracy:And other than that, you have no idea, really, who's got what rights and.
Jeff Tracy:And all that.
Jeff Tracy:And I just.
Jeff Tracy:I don't know.
Jeff Tracy:I think with all the, you know, for years, this is the way I looked at it, Gary.
Jeff Tracy:For years, golf was kind of this cast in stone type deal.
Jeff Tracy:There were.
Jeff Tracy:Didn't matter to the Tour, but they guys played at this level.
Jeff Tracy:They would go to Firestone, or they would go to Augusta, or they would go to St.
Jeff Tracy:Andrews, and they played at this level.
Jeff Tracy:And there wasn't any.
Jeff Tracy:One of the things I think drew people to it is there wasn't any contention as far as, you know, nitpicking at things and all that.
Jeff Tracy:Maybe there was behind the scenes when like.
Jeff Tracy:Like you were reporting on it, but the general public didn't see that.
Jeff Tracy:And now everything's out in the Open, and you can see what a lot of these golfers are making a lot of money.
Jeff Tracy:I don't.
Jeff Tracy:I don't begrudge anybody making a lot of money, but if you're complaining because last year you only made 24 million and you think you need another 2 million to, you know, play at the Ryder cup or something, then I think that turns people off.
Gary Van Sickle:Well, I.
Gary Van Sickle:I think what we've learned.
Gary Van Sickle:Golf has always been at its most interesting time when there's one.
Gary Van Sickle:One or two superstars dominating the sport.
Gary Van Sickle:And, you know, it was.
Gary Van Sickle:It was Arnie, then it was Nicholas, and then, honestly, the top guy was Norman, even though he didn't win a lot of majors, but he was the guy who moved the needle.
Gary Van Sickle:And then it was Tiger and Phil, and now both of those guys are gone.
Gary Van Sickle:And I don't think Rory really moves the needle.
Gary Van Sickle:If you were going to a tournament, you would go watch Rory, would you?
Gary Van Sickle:If you heard Rory was playing in a tournament, would you go buy tickets?
Gary Van Sickle:Maybe in Europe, I don't think in America as much.
Gary Van Sickle:But the one guy that's left who moves the needle before he got here, you may recall Bryson DeChambeau, right when he was bulk up and hitting at 390 yards.
Gary Van Sickle:People were.
Gary Van Sickle:He was.
Gary Van Sickle:He was the second coming.
Gary Van Sickle:People were buying tickets and running out to watch this guy, this mutant freak hit at 390.
Gary Van Sickle:And he was the show on the PGA Tour there for a year and a half.
Gary Van Sickle:Then he.
Gary Van Sickle:Then he was.
Gary Van Sickle:Then he had bad health because of what he had done, and he backed off.
Gary Van Sickle:Then he signed with Live because he wasn't sure if he wasn't damaged goods.
Gary Van Sickle:He took the guaranteed money, basically.
Gary Van Sickle:And now, you know, with Lev, he's in the witness protection program.
Gary Van Sickle:We don't see him but four times a year, but he's gone on the Internet.
Gary Van Sickle:He's still the one guy that moves the needle more than anybody in golf.
Gary Van Sickle:He's just not on the PGA Tour.
Gary Van Sickle:But I think the other thing we learned was it's underrated.
Gary Van Sickle:But the real star of all these PGA Tour events, in most cases, is the tournament itself.
Gary Van Sickle:The AT&T Pebble Beach Pro Am.
Gary Van Sickle:We're used to that tournament.
Gary Van Sickle:We know the course.
Gary Van Sickle:We know where it's played.
Gary Van Sickle:Colonial isn't a big tournament anymore, but we still.
Gary Van Sickle:We know the course.
Gary Van Sickle:We know everything about it.
Gary Van Sickle:We're comfortable.
Gary Van Sickle:It's like a pair of old slippers.
Jeff Tracy:Yeah.
Gary Van Sickle:The Memorial Tournament is at Muirfield Village.
Gary Van Sickle:These tournaments, the Phoenix Open, and Saturday at the Phoenix Open and all that comes with it.
Gary Van Sickle:And Torrey Pines, whatever the name is.
Gary Van Sickle:The Farmers Championship.
Gary Van Sickle:We know the courses, and we're comfortable.
Gary Van Sickle:We go back to the same spots every year.
Gary Van Sickle:And that's part of the attraction, I think that keeps people interested versus live where.
Gary Van Sickle:And I don't want to get into a live discussion, really, but live goes different courses every year.
Gary Van Sickle:They don't have.
Gary Van Sickle:They have different date.
Gary Van Sickle:The tournaments don't even have names.
Gary Van Sickle:You know, first of all, you couldn't probably, you know, the average person couldn't name five live tournaments.
Gary Van Sickle:And if they did, I mean, they certainly couldn't name five courses where they were playing.
Gary Van Sickle:You know, they have no brand identity.
Gary Van Sickle:And I think that's part of the appeal of PGA Tour is.
Gary Van Sickle:Yeah.
Gary Van Sickle:Constants that continuity.
Gary Van Sickle:And we've gotten to know these courses and some of the wrinkles on them.
Gary Van Sickle:But you're right.
Gary Van Sickle:Where they had.
Gary Van Sickle:Where the.
Gary Van Sickle:Where the TV has failed because of the PGA Tour, you know, the commentary and the production and all that is.
Gary Van Sickle:It's not, you know, if you're counting on us to be mesmerized by guys hitting balls with sticks, we've got A lot more.
Gary Van Sickle:I'm stealing that line from Dan Jenkins, by the way.
Jeff Tracy:Right, right, right.
Gary Van Sickle:Guys hitting balls with sticks.
Gary Van Sickle:You know that we're not as mesmerized by that anymore because they all hit it ridiculously far, which I think makes it less interesting because they're in wedge all day.
Gary Van Sickle:But we need a little more entertainment value.
Gary Van Sickle:And I don't, I don't.
Gary Van Sickle:You don't have to bring in a stand up comedian, but we need to get rid of these.
Gary Van Sickle:You know, everybody on there is a former golfer and they're all into the golf part.
Gary Van Sickle:You know, whether it's Billy Ray Brown or somebody reading a pot saying, oh, Jimmy, the.
Gary Van Sickle:This putt's going to break to the left at first, but at the end, I think it's going to go back right.
Gary Van Sickle:And I think it's going to be surprisingly quick.
Gary Van Sickle:And I don't know if Joe Schlebotnik is going to wreck it.
Gary Van Sickle:As a viewer, I don't care.
Gary Van Sickle:I don't care what the line of the putt is.
Gary Van Sickle:Just tell me this was a hard putt.
Gary Van Sickle:He's going to get fooled or he's going to make.
Gary Van Sickle:I don't care.
Gary Van Sickle:And you know, then the guy hits the punt.
Gary Van Sickle:Oh, great call, Billy Ray.
Gary Van Sickle:You tell me something interesting.
Gary Van Sickle:Yeah, and that's where they fail.
Gary Van Sickle:Because if they do have anybody on there to.
Gary Van Sickle:Let's just say hypothetically, if I was on the air being Van cynical and sarcastic and cracking one liners.
Gary Van Sickle:The Tour doesn't like that.
Gary Van Sickle:The Tour wants vanilla pudding.
Gary Van Sickle:They want their brand to be crystal pure.
Gary Van Sickle:Nobody on golf has ever drank a beer or gotten arrested or done anything bad.
Gary Van Sickle:They don't want that.
Gary Van Sickle:So it's the PGA Tour's fault that the entertainment value is somewhat lacking on these broadcasts, where the audience has a higher standard of entertainment now than it used to.
Jeff Tracy:Absolutely.
Jeff Tracy:We're going to take a break.
Jeff Tracy:I'm going to be back with Gary Van Sickle in our yearly wrap up show right after this.
Jeff Tracy:Don't go away.
Dean Snell:Hey, everybody, J.T.
Jeff Tracy:Here.
Dean Snell:You know, every week on grilling at the Green, we bring you a travel tip and that is brought to you by the Westin dealerships.
Dean Snell:I've known those guys since I was a kid.
Dean Snell:And they have one way of doing business.
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Dean Snell:It's family oriented, and there's no better people to deal with.
Dean Snell:Check out Weston Kia on Southeast Stark in Gresham, Oregon.
Jeff Tracy:Hi, I'm Dean Snell, CEO of Snell Golf.
Jeff Tracy:And you're Listening to Jeff at Grilling at the Green.
Jeff Tracy:Welcome back to Grilling at Three Knife.
Jeff Tracy:Jt.
Jeff Tracy:We've got friend of show commentator deluxe there, Gary Van Sickle with us.
Jeff Tracy:Anybody ever offer you a TV job?
Gary Van Sickle:Not really, no.
Gary Van Sickle:I did something on TV during the Skins game in Hawaii.
Gary Van Sickle:One year only because Sports Illustrated had a deal with tnt and that show is micromanaged down to, you wouldn't believe, in between shots, they have all this stuff planned.
Gary Van Sickle:You know, I had to walk along for 12 holes until, you know, I was like the sideline reporter who.
Gary Van Sickle:At a football game.
Gary Van Sickle:But instead of reporting, like, breaking news, I'm telling my little spiel from the newspaper on Thursday, you know, well, Davis Love's son Drew was going to caddy for him this week, but he broke his foot playing basketball and he's blah, blah, blah, and can't do it this week, you know, with 90 seconds and, you know, back to you.
Gary Van Sickle:And then, ironically, later in the round, Drew Love was there somewhere, and Bobby Clampett was one of the guys for tnt, and he was on.
Gary Van Sickle:He was a walking foot soldier.
Gary Van Sickle:And he's like, well, Drew, you know, Gary just told us a little while ago that blah, blah.
Gary Van Sickle:And I'm sure Drew Love is like, who the hell is Gary?
Jeff Tracy:Yeah.
Gary Van Sickle:It'S not like I had gone to Drew Love to get this story.
Gary Van Sickle:I was just using.
Gary Van Sickle:Yeah, they wanted some kind of nugget.
Gary Van Sickle:And that's why I said I gave them a couple things and they won't like that one.
Gary Van Sickle:So that's what Pet Peeves, by the way, is.
Gary Van Sickle:You have a sideline reporter at the football game.
Gary Van Sickle:Your job is to tell me something that you've learned on the sideline, not to give me some stuff out of a feature story that in Thursday's newspaper that the guys in the booth could tell me.
Gary Van Sickle:We don't need you for that.
Gary Van Sickle:But, you know, yeah, they gotta find something for these sideline reporters to do who are, you know, by a large majority are women, which doesn't make anything, but, you know, they should be over on the sideline eavesdropping and talking to the team doctor and anybody getting any kind of in they can to give us information.
Jeff Tracy:But Amari Cooper twisted his ankle.
Jeff Tracy:He won't be back.
Jeff Tracy:You know, that type of thing.
Gary Van Sickle:Yeah, I mean, well, you know, there's a guy in the tent.
Gary Van Sickle:Well, I'll tell you what.
Gary Van Sickle:Why don't you go stand by the tent and eavesdrop on outside and see what you hear and tell us?
Jeff Tracy:Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Gary Van Sickle:Maybe you get fired after that, but at least serve a purpose.
Gary Van Sickle:That's my.
Jeff Tracy:Serve a purpose.
Gary Van Sickle:I.
Gary Van Sickle:Let me edit my answer to your previous question.
Gary Van Sickle:Have I ever been offered a job on tv?
Gary Van Sickle:Let me.
Gary Van Sickle:Let me edit that.
Gary Van Sickle:No.
Jeff Tracy:No.
Gary Van Sickle:That's what I should have said.
Gary Van Sickle:No.
Jeff Tracy:Okay.
Jeff Tracy:Excuse me.
Jeff Tracy:LPGA has got a new commissioner coming up.
Jeff Tracy:I think her, I think Molly's deal is over the 9th of January or something like that.
Jeff Tracy:If I read the, the dates right and they're now looking for a new commissioner.
Gary Van Sickle:I'm available, but I don't think they'll call me.
Jeff Tracy:I.
Jeff Tracy:They.
Jeff Tracy:That'll go along with your TV career?
Gary Van Sickle:Yes.
Jeff Tracy:No.
Jeff Tracy:Yeah.
Jeff Tracy:I don't know why.
Jeff Tracy:Well, I do know why.
Jeff Tracy:Because there seem to be a lot of grumblings in rank and file about some of the stuff she was doing.
Jeff Tracy:Don't they ever take that into consideration when they actually hire somebody?
Gary Van Sickle:Well, maybe, I don't know what went on behind the scenes and why she got the job, but I think they were looking for a certain kind of person who fit certain metrics for appearances and had maybe certain political beliefs, blah, blah, you know what I'm, you know what I mean?
Gary Van Sickle:Yeah.
Jeff Tracy:Yeah.
Gary Van Sickle:They wanted somebody to look the part of their ideals and maybe they could get the job.
Gary Van Sickle:You know, they really, I think the Solheim cup probably was.
Gary Van Sickle:The end of.
Gary Van Sickle:It was a disaster.
Gary Van Sickle:They couldn't get people parked into the course.
Jeff Tracy:Right.
Gary Van Sickle:And you know, this is your premier event and you bungled it.
Gary Van Sickle:How do you do that?
Gary Van Sickle:And you know, they've gotten, they've jacked the purses up.
Gary Van Sickle:A lot of sponsors have said, well, let's, let's get behind this cause and raise this sponsorship value.
Gary Van Sickle:And so they, they, they've done that.
Gary Van Sickle:But I, I don't know the.
Gary Van Sickle:But I, I mean, I don't know if there's more reason than that behind the.
Gary Van Sickle:Her decision to step down.
Gary Van Sickle:I thought it was interesting that I've got a year end review coming up that'll be running in SI.com, who knows when before the end of the year.
Gary Van Sickle:But one of the things I noted was it was the year where all the leaders quit leading and quit.
Gary Van Sickle:Yeah, you know, we.
Gary Van Sickle:Seth Watt, the PGA of America, Martin slumbers at the rna, Molly at the lpga.
Gary Van Sickle:Who am I, I'm leaving two other people out.
Gary Van Sickle:Well, yeah, Keith Pelly left the European Tour, the D Tour to go, go back to Canada and work for Toronto Maple Leafs.
Gary Van Sickle:And I don't know if, you know, the European Tour wasn't doing great anyways.
Gary Van Sickle:Keith is a brilliant guy.
Gary Van Sickle:I'm really impressed with him.
Gary Van Sickle:But, you know, they probably should have taken a deal with live.
Gary Van Sickle:The European Tour had trouble finding sponsors.
Gary Van Sickle:They've always been short of money.
Gary Van Sickle:Can you imagine if they would have said live, you can have your 18 events and they'll be, will, they'll be on our tour now, then the PGA Tour really would have had competition.
Gary Van Sickle:Yes, that would have been a game changer.
Gary Van Sickle:And I'm not, I still wouldn't be shocked to see that happen.
Gary Van Sickle:But everybody, a lot of people, a lot of leaders decided to step down this year, which I guess is coincidence, but, you know, maybe is related to your original topic, like viewership is down.
Gary Van Sickle:Maybe that's part of it.
Jeff Tracy:Well, they, I think they've got a model, whether on paper in their head that they, they look at these tours and say, this is what we've done.
Jeff Tracy:We've done this for 40 years.
Jeff Tracy:Whatever.
Jeff Tracy:This is what we want.
Jeff Tracy:But how you get there has changed.
Jeff Tracy:The media, as we've talked about television and that, you've got the Internet.
Jeff Tracy:I mean, I can watch a golf.
Jeff Tracy:An event on my phone, you know, and you can watch it.
Jeff Tracy:And with.
Jeff Tracy:They've all gone into the, the usga, the pga, the lpga.
Jeff Tracy:They've all got their own podcast, if you will, that is a radio broadcast.
Jeff Tracy:And you've got Sirius XM and you've got all this stuff.
Jeff Tracy:So it's a really diluted menu anymore for people to choose from, but you can get the information you want to hear from a dozen different sources now instead of just one.
Jeff Tracy:And I think that's a.
Jeff Tracy:I think that's a big deal.
Jeff Tracy:And like we said, the numbers are down and that makes it hard to sell.
Jeff Tracy:We got to take another break.
Jeff Tracy:I'm going to be back with Gary and we're going to get his follow up on this.
Jeff Tracy:You're listening to Grilling at the Green.
Dean Snell:Hey, everybody, it's jt.
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Dean Snell:But it's more than that because each bite of Painted Hills will make your taste buds explode.
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Jeff Tracy:You won't regret it.
Jeff Tracy:Welcome back to grilling.
Jeff Tracy:It's Green.
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Jeff Tracy:That's associated with this show.
Jeff Tracy:We thank you for listening.
Jeff Tracy:And don't forget, we're on the Golf News network, I heart 24 7.
Jeff Tracy:The show airs twice a week now, so that's all good.
Jeff Tracy:Anyway, I just.
Jeff Tracy:Back to what we were talking about before we went to break.
Jeff Tracy:Gary, I just think you've got.
Jeff Tracy:For the.
Jeff Tracy:For the viewer or the listener, you've got this plethora of choices where it didn't used to be that way.
Jeff Tracy:And.
Jeff Tracy:And for the people putting on the event, the tours, the Tour, the event itself, are you going to have all of those options available for your event?
Jeff Tracy:Are you going to only have a couple of them?
Jeff Tracy:Which ones are you going to choose?
Jeff Tracy:You know, maybe.
Gary Van Sickle:It's maybe harder to deliver an audience now.
Jeff Tracy:Yeah.
Gary Van Sickle:Meanwhile, you're under pressure to jack your purse up, especially in the case of the PGA Tour versus, you know, with Liv.
Jeff Tracy:Right.
Gary Van Sickle:They've jacked their purses way up.
Gary Van Sickle:The price of sponsoring a tournament has gone way up.
Gary Van Sickle:The Tour is asking these tournaments now, after they jack the purses up to Match Live, the sponsors are having to Pay, you know, 8 or 10 or $12 million more than they were.
Gary Van Sickle:Well, that's why you're starting to see these sponsors leave the Tour when their contracts are up, because they price themselves out of the market.
Gary Van Sickle:You know, this thing about.
Gary Van Sickle:I know I kind of moves into the next part you were going to talk about, but the shrink.
Gary Van Sickle:If they're trying to shrink the Tour down to 24 events, they're doing.
Gary Van Sickle:They're making all the right moves.
Gary Van Sickle:But I'll tell you right now, less is not more.
Gary Van Sickle:No matter what they try to tell you, less is always less.
Gary Van Sickle:And if you think the Tour is better with 24 or 20 or 18 events, that each one's big, it's not.
Gary Van Sickle:It's.
Gary Van Sickle:Yeah, that's not how.
Gary Van Sickle:You know.
Gary Van Sickle:Roy McElroy said some comments earlier this year about, we're doing this all wrong.
Gary Van Sickle:We should have, you know, just fewer players in the field and bigger names and all this.
Gary Van Sickle:And it's like, Rory, you know, what they're doing now is how the Tour got here.
Gary Van Sickle:You're talking about basically closing the door, pulling up the rope behind you.
Gary Van Sickle:That's great for you.
Gary Van Sickle:But when you guys get old and can't play anymore, where are your stars going to be?
Gary Van Sickle:You're going to have developed anymore.
Gary Van Sickle:They're all going to be playing on a mini tour somewhere, and no one's going to know their name.
Jeff Tracy:Right.
Gary Van Sickle:Somehow the PGA Tours had a great model for 50 years.
Gary Van Sickle:But these guys in their quest for money and power and trying to get less competition and get what they want, play less, make more, they think that's the way to go for them and they don't care if that affects, you know, MTV thinks, oh great, if this, I mean they're, they're inching toward the Greg Norman world Tour model.
Gary Van Sickle:Yeah, let's just have 15 big events with the 60 big names and we'll play all over the world for big money.
Gary Van Sickle:Okay, but how you, you know, where those 60 guys, how those 60 guys become big names, where are they supposed to play?
Gary Van Sickle:It's a short sighted model based on greed.
Gary Van Sickle:And that's where the tour is going.
Gary Van Sickle:And I, I, I don't think it's smart.
Gary Van Sickle:And I, I, as a viewer, I don't like it at all.
Jeff Tracy:I don't think it's sustainable myself.
Gary Van Sickle:I, I think they're gonna put themselves out of business.
Jeff Tracy:Yeah, which kind of, when you touched on it there just a second ago, Gary, when you said talk about greed and stuff, I got getting paid to play the Ryder cup ticks me off.
Jeff Tracy:And, and different people have different opinions of that.
Jeff Tracy:I get it.
Jeff Tracy:But you're, you're talking to guys that are already making north of 15 to 20 million a year with not maybe what they get on the, on the tour, but endorsements, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
Jeff Tracy:Sorry folks, but I'm kind of a red, white and blue guy inside.
Jeff Tracy:I think Gary is too.
Jeff Tracy:And there's something to be said playing for your country, they don't pay any expenses now on down the President's cup or the Ryder cup that they're catered to and all that, and, and that's fine, but when you say, okay, we're going to throw a half a million dollars at a player, 300,000 goes to the player and 200,000 goes to your charity of choice or whatever.
Jeff Tracy:Why not just say you get 200 and the 200 has got to go to your charity?
Jeff Tracy:That's it.
Jeff Tracy:If you're going to throw some money at it, that's my take.
Gary Van Sickle:And $3,000 to them is like $300 to you and I, Right?
Gary Van Sickle:It's chump change.
Gary Van Sickle:And you know, hat gate with Patrick Cantley at the last one was just classic ugly Americanism at its finest.
Gary Van Sickle:Yeah, he gets all bent out of shape.
Gary Van Sickle:Well, I'm not going to wear a hat because I'm not being paid.
Gary Van Sickle:Well, I'll tell you what, how about this?
Gary Van Sickle:Anybody who wants to insist on getting paid.
Gary Van Sickle:You stay home.
Gary Van Sickle:I'll go with 12 JT postons to the Ryder Cup.
Gary Van Sickle:And I don't care if we lose, but at least we got 12 guys who want to be there.
Gary Van Sickle:That would be my attitude.
Jeff Tracy:Yeah.
Gary Van Sickle:If you need $500,000 this bad, then, then don't play.
Gary Van Sickle:Stay home.
Gary Van Sickle:We don't want you.
Gary Van Sickle:We'd rather have somebody who wants to be there.
Gary Van Sickle:And I tell you, the scene that really irked me and never not so much.
Gary Van Sickle:Patrick Cantlay.
Gary Van Sickle:It was the last day where, oh, Justin Thomas didn't wear a hat in France.
Gary Van Sickle:In.
Gary Van Sickle:They weren't in France.
Jeff Tracy:Italy.
Gary Van Sickle:In Italy.
Gary Van Sickle:Well, you know, I was almost going to say same thing, but of course it's not.
Gary Van Sickle:They were in Italy.
Gary Van Sickle:And he's playing without a hat, and he finally makes a birdie putt after two days of struggling.
Gary Van Sickle:And he tips his imaginary hat like, ah, he's really showing him something.
Gary Van Sickle:Meanwhile, the scoreboard says you're losing like 13 to 8, right?
Gary Van Sickle:So it's like a football game when a guy scores a touchdown, you're down 27 to 7, and, oh, we just got 7 in your face.
Gary Van Sickle:Like, check the board, buddy.
Jeff Tracy:Yeah, there's four minutes left.
Gary Van Sickle:And why are you being a hot dog?
Gary Van Sickle:Who do you think you're impressing?
Gary Van Sickle:You just look stupid.
Gary Van Sickle:So I, I'm with you on this.
Gary Van Sickle:I Do they really need a couple hundred grand for charity?
Gary Van Sickle:They spend their whole.
Gary Van Sickle:I, I, I'd say get, they get nothing.
Gary Van Sickle:PGF American.
Gary Van Sickle:You know, when they first did the charity donation, I think it was 98, because Marco Mirror, one of the cheapest guys around, was the ringleader of that revolt.
Gary Van Sickle:I think Marco Mira, when he got the money for charity, gave a lot of it to his, I don't know if it was his son or his daughter's elementary school.
Gary Van Sickle:So, yeah, great charity.
Gary Van Sickle:He basically kind of almost went through his own pocket to affect his own kid.
Gary Van Sickle:It didn't, it didn't go.
Gary Van Sickle:And it was probably a private school, I don't recall.
Gary Van Sickle:But the tour should, The PGA of America should.
Gary Van Sickle:They're going to donate to the charity.
Gary Van Sickle:The Tour.
Gary Van Sickle:The PGA of America should choose the charities, not the players, and put it in their name.
Gary Van Sickle:But really, do we have to do that?
Gary Van Sickle:Why don't you just go play and if you don't want to play, stay home?
Gary Van Sickle:I'm fine with that.
Jeff Tracy:Yeah, you know, if you want to make it fun, make it a side bet to whether it's USA or Europe.
Jeff Tracy:Whoever wins, somebody put up a million dollars for the selective charity for either Europe or that if you want to throw some money at it, do something like that.
Jeff Tracy:That's good.
Gary Van Sickle:Yeah, well, then somebody would complain, oh, you just cost the European charities all this money.
Gary Van Sickle:Okay, well, yeah, I know.
Gary Van Sickle:How about the players?
Gary Van Sickle:Maybe the players all put up the money and everybody drops 100 grand in the pot, and the two teams play for that, all that money.
Gary Van Sickle:If you really.
Gary Van Sickle:But it doesn't make sense.
Gary Van Sickle:It runs the.
Gary Van Sickle:It's not about money.
Jeff Tracy:No.
Gary Van Sickle:Show up and play for your flag.
Gary Van Sickle:And again, we're past the time where, if you don't want to play, I'm not going to criticize you for that.
Gary Van Sickle:I'm, I'm going to applaud you for admitting, you know, you're a greedy whore dog who wants money and we don't want you on the team.
Jeff Tracy:There you go.
Jeff Tracy:I, I, I think I've told you this before, Gary, but I actually enjoy at times, at times watching President's cup matches versus the Ryder cup matches.
Jeff Tracy:They're not as prestigious, blah, blah, blah.
Jeff Tracy:I don't care about that.
Jeff Tracy:I just think that at times in the President's cup, it just seems to be a little more fun.
Jeff Tracy:There's less pressure than a Ryder Cup.
Jeff Tracy:Now, this is just from a viewer.
Jeff Tracy:This is, you know, and I just actually enjoy watching the President's cup more.
Jeff Tracy:So.
Jeff Tracy:Call me crazy, but I agree.
Gary Van Sickle:You know, team match play, when it matters, is the best format for golf.
Jeff Tracy:Yeah.
Gary Van Sickle:Yeah, it is fun to watch.
Gary Van Sickle:You know, the thing about, that's the thing about match play.
Gary Van Sickle:Every hole has a conclusion, win, lose, or tie.
Gary Van Sickle:It's not like a guy's playing 18 holes of golf and, oh, he's random.
Gary Van Sickle:Now he might get to four.
Gary Van Sickle:You know, if Lee Jansen is seven under in the US Opening, three holes to go, there's no sweat off my bra if he gets to eight under or not.
Jeff Tracy:Right.
Gary Van Sickle:Makes a bogey.
Gary Van Sickle:But in the Ryder cup, you know, when it's, there's some national pride involved or whatever, it's fun to watch.
Gary Van Sickle:And if, if you can get past the relative meaninglessness of the President's cup, match play got team match play.
Gary Van Sickle:Golf is, is great.
Gary Van Sickle:I get sucked in every time, and I always think, yeah, do I care?
Gary Van Sickle:But you start watching, and it's fun to watch these guys play each other.
Jeff Tracy:Yeah.
Gary Van Sickle:And the best thing is match play always becomes personal.
Gary Van Sickle:Sooner or later, somebody doesn't give a putt, or somebody makes a putt on top of somebody, and you can see like, yeah, yeah, yeah, they're you know, they're playing each other instead of the golf course.
Gary Van Sickle:And that is far more interesting.
Jeff Tracy:I think so, too.
Jeff Tracy:And I think that, like you said, match play is a lot more fun to watch.
Jeff Tracy:It can also make for.
Gary Van Sickle:Excuse me.
Gary Van Sickle:It has to matter, though, Jeff.
Gary Van Sickle:It has to matter.
Jeff Tracy:Yeah.
Gary Van Sickle:You can just make a match play tournament out of, you know, the John Deere Classic, and it's not the same.
Gary Van Sickle:It has to it has to have some significance to make it really fun.
Jeff Tracy:Right.
Jeff Tracy:No, I agree.
Jeff Tracy:We're going to take a break, come back, wrap up the show with Gary Van Sickle and have more fun.
Jeff Tracy:And Gary's gonna stick around for after hours.
Jeff Tracy:That'll be really fun today.
Jeff Tracy:Stay with us.
Dean Snell:Hey, everybody, J.T.
Dean Snell:here.
Dean Snell:If you need something to practice with in the inclement weather, try birdie ball.
Dean Snell:Go to birdieball.com check out the actual birdie balls, their packages, their putting greens.
Jeff Tracy:Which I happen to have a couple.
Dean Snell:Of those, and they work great.
Dean Snell:Birdieball.com Foreign.
Jeff Tracy:Welcome back to Grilling at the Green.
Jeff Tracy:I'm JT today we've got Gary Van Sickle, si.com formerly si big time.
Jeff Tracy:When I say that, I meant when the magazine was big time.
Jeff Tracy:So did I say that magazine?
Jeff Tracy:Yeah.
Jeff Tracy:I don't know.
Jeff Tracy:It's well, I saw one in a museum in Hawaii and so they still.
Gary Van Sickle:Put one out once a month.
Gary Van Sickle:I don't really know what's in it, but there still is sort of a magazine.
Gary Van Sickle:I know this something in between swimsuit issues.
Jeff Tracy:I was going to say they still do the swimsuit issues.
Jeff Tracy:So we were talking about match play in the last segment.
Jeff Tracy:I actually kind of think it's fun to watch what they did like last week at the I guess it was the Grant Thornton, where they were LPGA and PGA Tour players teamed together.
Jeff Tracy:And yeah, I you know, it doesn't have any national importance other than it's just a fun tournament to watch, I think.
Jeff Tracy:And you know, and actually I think if promoted correctly, those could be more of an audience draw, not just in television but at the tournament themselves.
Jeff Tracy:That call me crazy, but I think that's a pretty good formula that really hasn't been pushed for a long time.
Jeff Tracy:So there you go.
Gary Van Sickle:Well, it's tough when most your female stars are not American and they're not names that the viewing public knows.
Jeff Tracy:Right.
Gary Van Sickle:It's a much tougher sell, you know, then I'm not sure there's ever been a time when we had a lot of Americans at the public, you know, back in the day, one of the tours, mostly American women, they, they are, they were hardly on tv and people didn't know who most of them were then either.
Gary Van Sickle:So that, that's, that's an issue.
Gary Van Sickle:The PGA Tour, the LPJ has, is the international stars.
Gary Van Sickle:It's hard for Americans to keep.
Gary Van Sickle:Keep straight who's who.
Jeff Tracy:Right.
Jeff Tracy:You know, and then you've got.
Jeff Tracy:There's a bunch of them from the LPGA stepping away now.
Jeff Tracy:Lexi is doing that.
Gary Van Sickle:I want to say Marina.
Gary Van Sickle:Marina, Alex.
Jeff Tracy:Yeah, yeah.
Jeff Tracy:And a couple other ones there.
Jeff Tracy:Very solid players, all of them.
Jeff Tracy:Brittany Lincecomb.
Jeff Tracy:They've all been major winners and different things like that.
Jeff Tracy:And they're kind of stepping away now.
Gary Van Sickle:If you want to have a family, it's tough to keep playing as a, as a woman.
Gary Van Sickle:The guys can, you know, can still do it because, you know, the wife can stay home, but the women, it basically takes, you know, it's just.
Gary Van Sickle:You're taking a year and a half off.
Jeff Tracy:Yeah.
Gary Van Sickle:And honestly, after you have a child, you're interested in being away from home probably is reduced next to nothing.
Jeff Tracy:So very limited.
Gary Van Sickle:That's.
Gary Van Sickle:It makes a lot.
Gary Van Sickle:It's not fun to be away from home or be away from your kid.
Gary Van Sickle:So I totally understand.
Gary Van Sickle:Women generally have shorter careers because of that.
Gary Van Sickle:And yeah, go out and live a real life.
Gary Van Sickle:That you should do that well.
Jeff Tracy:And it's like Lexi said when they asked her about it, and this was this last summer after she announced it, she goes, yeah, I don't want to play a full schedule anymore.
Jeff Tracy:I want to select them.
Jeff Tracy:She goes, I'm kind of interested in like, you know, having a full time relationship, maybe getting married, having a kid.
Jeff Tracy:I mean, she just went, write down the list of everything you and I have talked about.
Jeff Tracy:And she just said, I can't do it when I'm doing what I'm doing right now.
Jeff Tracy:Just too hard.
Gary Van Sickle:How many Holiday Inns do you have to stay in before it gets old?
Jeff Tracy:Yeah.
Jeff Tracy:And to me, wasn't very many, you know, to do that real quick because we just got a couple minutes left, but we'll pick this up in after hours.
Jeff Tracy:Norman.
Jeff Tracy:Greg Norman seems to be okay with not being at the helm of Live.
Gary Van Sickle:Well, what's he gonna say?
Jeff Tracy:Not much.
Gary Van Sickle:I got sacked.
Gary Van Sickle:I'm, you know, he didn't, you know, it didn't work out.
Gary Van Sickle:Live did accomplish some things.
Gary Van Sickle:It, it made a lot of money for the players on PGA Tour, who the tours tried to match a lot of the things they've done.
Gary Van Sickle:But live, I don't think has really gained any traction with American viewers.
Gary Van Sickle:And I don't know about the rest of the world.
Gary Van Sickle:I feel like maybe it's got a bigger following overseas and maybe you and I talked about this to me live should just play all their events overseas because that's where there's more interest, I think.
Jeff Tracy:Yeah.
Gary Van Sickle:These places like Australia, where they're off crazy country, but they don't have many events.
Gary Van Sickle:And when they do, you know, their big events aren't well supported by sponsors.
Gary Van Sickle:They have live events, they get some famous names there and they get big money and everyone's excited.
Gary Van Sickle:I mean, I did happen to catch the.
Gary Van Sickle:Again, it didn't have a tournament name, but they were in Australia.
Gary Van Sickle:I want to say Adelaide, but I could be wrong.
Gary Van Sickle:And it went to a playoff and they had a team playoff thing and one of the Australian guys was in the playoff.
Gary Van Sickle:I mean, the place was going crazy.
Gary Van Sickle:It was really a thrilling atmosphere.
Gary Van Sickle:Like a U.S.
Gary Van Sickle:open or an Open Championship would have been.
Gary Van Sickle:So.
Gary Van Sickle:So they had that.
Gary Van Sickle:But they should.
Gary Van Sickle:They should just go overseas and do that and leave.
Gary Van Sickle:Quit trying to go head to head with against a tour, which is what I think that norm was.
Gary Van Sickle:Norman's really.
Gary Van Sickle:His goal was to stick it to the tour and take him down, beat him at their own game.
Gary Van Sickle:And having tournaments two weeks before the US Open up against other big events, you weren't going to win that.
Gary Van Sickle:So I don't know.
Gary Van Sickle:Yeah, Greg didn't have a.
Gary Van Sickle:Any say about this.
Gary Van Sickle:He got booted out.
Gary Van Sickle:His contract ran out and he.
Gary Van Sickle:He's got to put a good face on it because, you know, he's.
Gary Van Sickle:He's Greg Norman.
Gary Van Sickle:He's got a little bit of an ego, just like most people do.
Jeff Tracy:That's going to wrap it up with Gary and I on the regular show here.
Jeff Tracy:We're coming up with after hours out of that.
Jeff Tracy:Gary, I want you to have a great Christmas.
Jeff Tracy:Did you ever get that bathroom painted downstairs?
Gary Van Sickle:Oh, yeah.
Gary Van Sickle:Okay.
Gary Van Sickle:Yeah.
Jeff Tracy:Okay.
Gary Van Sickle:I had my minions do it.
Gary Van Sickle:No, I did it myself.
Gary Van Sickle:Yeah, absolutely.
Jeff Tracy:Okay.
Jeff Tracy:Okay, great.
Jeff Tracy:We wish you all also a very merry Christmas.
Jeff Tracy:That's coming up.
Jeff Tracy:And we'll be back after the first year.
Jeff Tracy:Until then, go out, play some golf.
Jeff Tracy:Have some fun.
Jeff Tracy:Most of all, be kind.
Jeff Tracy:Take care, everybody.
Narrator:Grilling at the Green is produced by JTSD Productions, LLC in association with Salem Media Group.
Narrator:All rights reserve.
