Gary Van Sickle - Golf Writer
This podcast episode revolves around the evolving landscape of golf journalism and the implications of changing media dynamics within the sport. We engage in a profound discourse with Gary Van Sickle, a seasoned journalist who sheds light on the diminishing coverage of golf tours, particularly the LPGA and the Korn Ferry Tour, due to the dwindling resources of traditional media outlets. The conversation delves into the complexities of media representation, contrasting the past with the present, where influencers and content creators dominate the narrative, often at the expense of substantive reporting. We also explore the recent changes within the PGA Tour, including the appointment of a new CEO, and the challenges faced by the tour amidst the rise of alternative leagues such as LIV Golf. This episode serves as a critical examination of the current state of golf media and the nuances that shape public perception and engagement with the sport.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Birdie Ball
- First Call
- Golf News Network
- si.com
- Pro golf weekly
- newengland.golf
- Golf Channel
- Golf Magazine
- Golf Digest
- Golf World
- Snell Golf Balls
- Carsley Golf
- Painted Hills Beef
- Weston Kia
- Kia
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcript
It's time for Grilling at the Green.
Speaker A:Join Jeff Tracy as he explores a golfing lifestyle and tries to keep it in the short grass for the hackers, new sweepers and turf spankers.
Speaker A:Here's Jeff.
Speaker B:Hey everybody.
Speaker B:Welcome to Grilling at the green.
Speaker B:I'm J.T.
Speaker B:fondly part of the Golf News Network and other actual radio stations around and all the podcast platforms.
Speaker B:This segment is brought to you by Birdie Ball.
Speaker B:If you want to practice in your backyard and you don't have a large area, I Recommend Go to birdieball.com and see what they can do for you.
Speaker B:Well, he's back and I always look forward to Gary being on the show.
Speaker B:Gary Van Sickle, he's got a new gig, though it's with First Call.
Speaker B:He's still doing everything else, but he's with First Call now and I would submit to you that you should probably subscribe to that because I always love Gary's wit and view on things and we'll get into that.
Speaker B:Hey, how are you, buddy?
Speaker C:I am darn near awake, Jeff.
Speaker C:The First Call I write for them something like every other week and si.com I write only a couple times a month and then I appear sporadically on Pro golf weekly or newengland.golf or and we have have my own podcast that I share with Kathy Bissell of the Golf Show 2.0.
Speaker C:She created the original right Golf show in the late 80s and early 90s which was a weekly syndicated nationally syndicated TV show, kind of like Inside the PGA Tour before that show ever thought of existing and you know, long before the Golf Channel came in.
Speaker C:So sure.
Speaker C:So that doesn't, that sounds like a lot, but it really isn't much.
Speaker C:So you have to look hard to find to find me now.
Speaker C:But that's the way it goes.
Speaker C:Well, popular demand has, hasn't reached its.
Speaker B:Limit, but you probably get to play a little more golf when, you know, time allows.
Speaker C:Well, that's it would be great to be on somebody's payroll and paying you to go to these tournaments like I used to.
Speaker C:But those jobs, there's hardly anybody doing that anymore.
Speaker C:You pretty much have to work for PGA Tour or the Golf Channel or maybe Golf Magazine or Golf Digest, but nobody, you know, other than the Associated Press, nobody is really covering tour on a week to week.
Speaker C:Nobody goes out and goes to 28 tournaments or 30 tournaments like I used to and some and a bunch of guys.
Speaker C:I mean newspapers don't cover anything except a couple of majors, right.
Speaker C:So, you know, I, I feel like you know, I used to work at Golf World magazine, which is a weekly news magazine and there's kind of a need for that now because good luck.
Speaker C:If you wanted to follow the lpga, good luck finding any more than a couple hundred words about the tournament each day.
Speaker C:Same goes for the Senior Tour, the Korn Ferry Tour in the US Here.
Speaker C:Good luck finding the European Tour.
Speaker C:Any, you're just not finding stories and notes and you can't keep up and stay in touch with the players.
Speaker C:And I realize that's a small number of people who want to do that, but the new reader has changed and they don't want to read that much.
Speaker C:They want to watch some videos of a guy hitting, trying to make a hole in one over his house and not, not read a story about what happened in the first round of the FedEx St. Jude.
Speaker C:So it's, the game has changed and the money's gone away from really out not only all print vehicles but any mainstream traditional media outlets.
Speaker C:And it's all these new guys who were sit around on their couch and crack wise from home.
Speaker C:And that's, there's no, there's no premium on knowledge or experience.
Speaker C:It's become more entertainment and maybe that's good but that's, that's what the 27 year olds want.
Speaker C:So that's the way it's interesting.
Speaker B:Yeah, we've got that here.
Speaker B:We've got the standard Portland Portland Classic in town and I, I went to school with some of these guys and they may come out to the tournament once to see what kind of snacks they've got in the press and then they go home and they can watch it because it's always a delayed broadcast and it's a shortened broadcast versus the, the guys tour and stuff, but that's a different story.
Speaker B:But they can sit there and either pull it off the LPGA website or their live stream or they can pull it off the Golf Channel deal.
Speaker B:So you don't see them very much.
Speaker B:Those press rooms are pretty empty compared to days of yore.
Speaker C:Well, it would be a good survey.
Speaker C:Go around and ask people to name how many LPGA players can you name other than Nellie Corda?
Speaker C:And it's going to be a short list.
Speaker C:Now I realize the LPGA is interest in that has always been minuscule compared to the PGA Tour.
Speaker C:But still, who knows what kind of news we're missing at all these events.
Speaker C:And you're just getting what basically the tours want you to have.
Speaker C:And the PGA Tour is getting that way too.
Speaker C:I mean, who's who's hanging out in the locker room talking to these guys anymore and having a relationship.
Speaker C:And these guys don't see what you read anymore because they don't go online or whatever your website is.
Speaker C:And I don't know, it's a, it's a whole new world than, than it was when I was on the tour on a regular basis.
Speaker C:And I don't know if that's good or bad.
Speaker C:I just know it's different.
Speaker C:And really there's no money in the media unless you have some kind of do it yourself thing that clicks like no laying up or good, good or I don't know these creators who are content creators who sometime how have managed to get a, a foothold and a thing where, you know, golf is a niche sport and it's hard to find.
Speaker C:You know, if there's 20, 000 people who follow golf, really that's kind of the number.
Speaker C:If you got more than 20, 000 then you've found something.
Speaker C:If you.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:Anything less is like, well, that's about all there is.
Speaker C:So I don't know, you know how the Internet is.
Speaker C:These, these content people, if you want to get big numbers on content and views, the majority of the people are doing it are, you know, good looking, younger women and, and I'm not going to throw Paige Spirak in that but under that bus.
Speaker C:But she's the, she's a prototype.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:She's used her looks to get 3,4 million viewers and she's killing it.
Speaker C:Even though she, you know, hasn't done a whole lot and she's trying to get a gig.
Speaker C:I'm kind of surprised she hasn't landed on one of the networks.
Speaker C:But a lot of that, a lot of the influencers are good looking girls who say what, let's play three holes, Watch me watch my follow through kind of a thing.
Speaker C:And you know, it works for them.
Speaker C:It's a little tougher if you're a, if you're a guy who looks like us and is older.
Speaker C:I mean there's just, we don't, that's true.
Speaker C:You know, you and I, and you and I in swimsuits isn't really going to get the job done.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:You know, every time I put on a swimsuit, Gary damn Greenpeace comes by and tries to get me back in the water.
Speaker B:So you know what, they're ten foot.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's it.
Speaker B:That's it.
Speaker B:No, I know that I think we talked about that briefly before but you know the tour earlier this year Right after the first year, announced that those four, I think it was four, maybe five influencers were going to have the access that guys like you that covered the Tour inside the ropes, if you wanted to.
Speaker B:You know, if, if.
Speaker B:I mean, I know a lot of press guys that never, they just, they didn't go inside the ropes, but they walked with the players and did this and that.
Speaker B:But the influencers are out there with their cameras and this and that.
Speaker B:And you're right, I guess that's what people want.
Speaker B:And the Tour thought that was a good thing.
Speaker B:Remains to be seen.
Speaker C:Over time, they're appealing to their own vanity instead of, you know, in our era, it was covering the Tour and now with these influencers, it's, hey, look at me.
Speaker C:Here I am covering the Tour.
Speaker C:Yeah, the Tour is secondary to them.
Speaker C:It's all about me all the time.
Speaker C:And there's the Tour and let's.
Speaker C:Here I am talking to Bryson DeChambeauty and, you know, having a conversation versus an interview where you're asking questions to get information.
Speaker C:Here I am throwing my, you know, putting on my show.
Speaker C:It's a fine line, but, you know, they've been, the people who have been successful at it are doing well.
Speaker C:And, you know, advertising has gone away from the traditional.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:Forget print, even print.
Speaker C:Meet vehicles online, golf digestorgolf.com or golfweek.com I mean, it's not, it's not like it used to be.
Speaker C:Nobody has the resources and the money to send somebody out on tour to, to write these stories.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:It's only a matter of time before the PGATour.com is going to have the feel to itself and you'll just get, you know, official propaganda.
Speaker C:Nothing's ever, nothing ever bad happens in the PGA Tour kingdom.
Speaker C:And we know that's not the case.
Speaker C:There are guys who get fined and this and that, but unless there's actual media out there doing reporting and not sitting at home doing their little show from their couch.
Speaker C:Oh, I think Colin Mor.
Speaker C:I think this about Colin Morikawa, based on what I saw on tv, versus talking to him and getting to know him or asking him questions and that's.
Speaker C:That's just the way the world now.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:We're going to take a break.
Speaker B:We're going to be back with the man himself, gvs right after this.
Speaker D:Hey, everybody, JT here.
Speaker B:If you need something to practice with.
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Speaker D:Birdieball.com.
Speaker B:Welcome back to Grilling at the Green.
Speaker B:We've got Gary Van Sickle with us today.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:I, I, I say this a lot, but I always really enjoy talking to Gary.
Speaker B:He and I are of the same era.
Speaker B:We, we share an awful lot of the same perspectives.
Speaker B:He's a Pittsburgh Steeler fan, so, you know, he's got that going for him, too.
Speaker C:I wasn't born here, but I've lived here for 27 years, and, you know, it's required by law.
Speaker C:Yeah, pay attention and pretend to route, but they've been an interesting team, but I'm not a. I wasn't born here.
Speaker C:I'm not a. I'm not a Pittsburgh native.
Speaker C:I'm a Midwesterner.
Speaker C:But, you know, you live somewhere long enough, all the teams kind of grow on you.
Speaker C:You got to be able to converse.
Speaker C:Jeff, you know what's going on.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Roger somehow wound up in Pittsburgh.
Speaker C:I still can't get over it, but that's another story.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, we'll do another show on that.
Speaker B:So I want to talk to you about the.
Speaker B:Well, first of all, the new CEO Brian Rollout on for the tour.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:They're bringing him in as the CEO, which is just, you know, to let Moynihan finish out his contract or however that's working behind the scenes.
Speaker B:I'm sure I've read various versions.
Speaker B:Do you think that's a good move?
Speaker B:I do.
Speaker B:I just do for the business of the tour, because I always thought that Moynihan was over his head in certain things, but that's just me, and I don't know the guy.
Speaker B:It's just from observation.
Speaker C:Well, of all the commissioners I've dealt with, Dean Beaman was.
Speaker C:You know, he was hard to have a conversation with.
Speaker C:He was.
Speaker C:He played hardball.
Speaker C:He.
Speaker C:It was very forced.
Speaker C:And Tim Fincham, who was a lawyer, you know, he'd give you a gobbledygook answer and not answer the question, and he thinks he fooled you with his big words, and he didn't.
Speaker C:Then you're done.
Speaker C:I was like, well, you could have just said, I don't want to answer that, and saved us both a lot of time.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:Jay is more forthright, and he would say, well, I can't talk about that, or whatever.
Speaker C:So I. I actually kind of like Jay, but, you know, he lost, I think, everybody.
Speaker B:When.
Speaker C:After he ripped Liv and the nine, you know, he told the 911 people the survivors that he, they'll always be there for him.
Speaker C:Then he turns around and cuts a secret deal with Liv, which winds up never coming to a conclusion because the tour's idea of, you know, one of their deals, one of the things they want in a deal with Liv is for Liv to cease to exist.
Speaker C:Not a lot of compromise in that position, how you're going to negotiate with somebody.
Speaker C:They want you to go away.
Speaker C:So you're not going to pay a deal.
Speaker C:It's not a deal.
Speaker B:Yeah, you're not going to pay the Saudis to go away, Gary.
Speaker C:Yeah, and the Saudis have so much money, they don't ever have to go away.
Speaker C:It's just a question of at what point do they get bored of, tired of losing money or whatever.
Speaker C:But when Jay did that turnaround and did it secretly, I think that was the end of, end of him, end of his future.
Speaker C:So now you got a guy who's a, you know, Brian rollout, more of a normal guy.
Speaker C:And I think, you know, they have plenty of business guys and all that on the staff.
Speaker C:And I'm sure he was chosen for a reason.
Speaker C:I'm sure he's very smart and has a lot of business acumen, but he really comes across as a normal guy.
Speaker C:And I think that's, that's going to be, that's going to be good in the long run.
Speaker C:But honestly, I mean, I didn't.
Speaker C:Before he got announced, I didn't know him at all, and I still don't know him at all.
Speaker C:So, you know, it's hard for me to say, oh, that's a great choice.
Speaker C:I don't, he's an unknown quantity to me, but I think based on the kind of people they've had before, somebody who, you know, a straight shooter would be a nice change of pace and not somebody who hides behind words and cuts deals and does this and that well.
Speaker B:And I think he's used to.
Speaker D:Big.
Speaker B:Events, big leagues, and I don't just mean big league as far as financial, but the league itself.
Speaker B:He's used to dealing with really high end, you know, multi, multi million dollar sponsorships, you know, just that kind of thing.
Speaker B:And, and to me, just stepping back and look at it, where he was, was about two or three steps above the tour business, wise of what they did, you know, and, and, you know, like I said, we'll see in the long run if that's a good thing or, or not or if it pans out.
Speaker B:But I would, like you said just a second ago, Jay and the Tour lost a lot of credibility.
Speaker B:Some Tour players fought those actions rightfully so from their beliefs and all that.
Speaker B:I get that.
Speaker B:I agree with what they were doing.
Speaker B:But like you said, it never came to a conclusion.
Speaker B:What, what was the end game?
Speaker B:I mean, was the biggest end game one to get rid of Norman because that's what a lot of guys didn't like?
Speaker B:Or was it to get rid of the Tour?
Speaker B:Was it to integrate and merge the Tours?
Speaker B: I think, than when we were in: Speaker C:Yeah, I've heard nothing to indicate there's any kind of a deal in the works.
Speaker C:To me, the only thing that would, the Tour would maybe go along with would be if LIV wanted to have their team events and have a different product, have the team thing.
Speaker C:And they can do that from say they get the last three or four months of the year, they get October, November, December, have 10 or 12 team events.
Speaker C:That's your season.
Speaker C:And then maybe we will let you come back and be part of our regular season.
Speaker C:You can play on our Tour.
Speaker C:The guys who qualify now, how they're going to, you know, how they're going to determine who can come back and when is odd is odd to me because we just heard the other day that Hudson Swofford is hardly a big name, but he went to live and he actually got hurt and missed part of a, you know, like a season live.
Speaker C:But he's, he said he's was given a five year suspension by the PGA Tour.
Speaker C:Meanwhile, this week, I believe Chase Koepka may have qualified for the Korn Ferry Tour.
Speaker C:Chase was on live.
Speaker C:Why is he able to play in a Korn Ferry event?
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So I don't, you know, I, I under the old Tour rules and I don't know if they still apply, but if you left the Tour, quit your membership and you want to come back, you had to wait a year, a full year after you reapplied.
Speaker C:And then of course there's no guarantee they would accept your return or reinstate your membership.
Speaker C:But basically the rules currently state you have to sit out a year.
Speaker C:Now, none of this is going to apply to liv.
Speaker C:They're going to make up their own rule, as in the case of Hudson Swafford.
Speaker C:So I don't know where that's going.
Speaker C:But you know, I think one thing that the Tour learned, and I think I said this early on, was who went to live?
Speaker C:That you're going to Ms. Bryson DeChambeau and John Rom are about it.
Speaker C:And really Bryson DeChambeau, you know, Cameron Smith I enjoy, but he hasn't played very well at all since winning the Open.
Speaker C:He kind of achieved his lifelong goal and human nature being what it is, it's easy to get complacent.
Speaker C:But the Tour has gone on without Liv and hasn't really missed a beat.
Speaker C:DeChambeau, he does the Internet.
Speaker C:He's, he's become even bigger than he was or almost as big as what, you know, he was the show there before he left.
Speaker C:He was the big star of the Tour hitting, you know, when he was bulked up and hit the 3, 380, 390.
Speaker C:So the tour didn't lose anything.
Speaker C:And to me they have all the leverage.
Speaker C:What does Liv have that, that the Tour wants?
Speaker C:Bryson?
Speaker C:Nothing else really.
Speaker C:And what is the Tour has everything that live wants.
Speaker C:So I don't, I don't see how they're ever going to come together in any kind of meaningful deal.
Speaker C:Just a question of if somebody wants to leave and come back, how long do they have to sit out and what kind of a fine do they have to pay.
Speaker C:And I don't even know if that's anything like that's even come up yet because they're still pretending to be working on a deal.
Speaker B:So, yeah, we're going to take another break.
Speaker B:I'm going to be back with Gary Van Sickle right after this.
Speaker B:Don't go away.
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Speaker D:Hey everybody, it's jt.
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Speaker B:Welcome back to grilling at the Green N JT Want to thank the folks at Snell Golf Balls?
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Speaker B:So go to carsleygolf.com we're talking with Gary Van Sickle today.
Speaker B:Gary's, like I said at the top of the show, he's got a.
Speaker B:Where'd my note go?
Speaker B:So I say it correctly, he's got a new gig there.
Speaker B:One of them with first call.
Speaker B:It's a sub stack.
Speaker B:He's writing for them and he's still continuing to write for si.
Speaker B:He's got a podcast.
Speaker B:He's a busy guy, but he wants to be more busy.
Speaker B:So that's probably not very good grammar.
Speaker C:But I don't, I don't necessarily want to be more busy, Jeff.
Speaker C:I want somebody to pay me to do something.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:You know, I don't, I'm not.
Speaker C:This is not a hobby.
Speaker C:No, honestly, I would probably write stuff for free.
Speaker C:You just don't want to tell people that up front because then you, then you definitely won't get paid.
Speaker C:Yeah, like, yeah, I would do this for nothing, but how much can you.
Speaker C:Well, why would they.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's just you can't afford to go spend a week at any in the US Open on your own and pay for a hotel room and all that.
Speaker C:I mean, you're, you're going to be out 20, $500 for a week easy.
Speaker C:So you need to be on somebody's payroll who's giving.
Speaker C:Covering your expenses to cover golf.
Speaker C:And, you know, that's, again, only a handful of people do that, and it's only a handful of weeks a year, really the major.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker B:Well, and I mean, not because I got some other stuff I want to talk to you about, but if you look at like somebody like me who's on the west coast, independent and all that, we have sponsors of the shows and that works great.
Speaker B:But for me to go to Pennsylvania, where you live, or to Georgia, to New York, to, you know, Bethpage, whatever, that's a very expensive trip.
Speaker B:You guys on the east coast used to pay the same hotel rates and stuff, but just the travel expenses for me to get from Portland to wherever can be astronomical.
Speaker C:I mean, PGA of America has hotel rooms for The Ryder cup on Long island somewhere.
Speaker C:And I don't think they're close to the course.
Speaker C:And I know it's well into the 300, 350 a night kind of thing.
Speaker C:Well, you know, you're talking $2,000 just for a hotel, much less getting there.
Speaker C:And you better be making more than that writing stories.
Speaker C:And nobody, you know that, that business is gone.
Speaker C:That's all.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, no, I get it.
Speaker B:I get it.
Speaker C:FedEx cup.
Speaker B:Time this show airs will be in the second week of the playoffs like that.
Speaker B:You got Scotty and Rory at the top as of today, but just sneaking up there, you've got a bunch of guys, you got some probable misses, which I saw a headline of that today.
Speaker B:Fowler, female, Clark posting Jordan Spieth like that.
Speaker B:One of the people I want to talk about was what was going on with Windham Clark.
Speaker B:What's in that noggin of his man Oakmont, you know, busting up the locker room.
Speaker B:What.
Speaker B:What gives?
Speaker C:I don't know him really, other than in media conferences and.
Speaker C:But I. I did talk to some caddies, and they had a good nickname for him, and unfortunately, I've forgotten it, being a senior citizen.
Speaker C:But the point is, he's.
Speaker C:He apparently has a little bit feeling of entitlement, and he does have a temper.
Speaker C:So I think, you know, you're the US Open champion, and I think almost every major champion I've talked to, a new One especially, or first time one, these guys win a U.S. open or a PGA Championship every time they play, they're introduced on the first tee as the US Open champion or the PGA champion, and they feel this obligation that they have to play like the US Open champion every time they tee it up, every day, every round, every tournament.
Speaker C:And that's not how it works.
Speaker C:You don't play good all the time.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:So when you feel like I'm the US Open champion, I should.
Speaker C:I should play great golf every time.
Speaker C:Well, that gets frustrating because you don't.
Speaker C:And if you've already got a little bit of a temper, I know Payne Stewart said this.
Speaker C:He felt we won the US Open the first time.
Speaker C:He felt like he had to do that.
Speaker C:Paul Azinger, all these guys have said this over the years, so I'm.
Speaker C:I'm guessing he may have succumbed to that.
Speaker C:And again, he does have a short fuse.
Speaker C:So, you know, the problem is these.
Speaker C:These guys need some media training or public relations training.
Speaker C:When you get caught doing something like that, you don't throw a lot.
Speaker C:A lot of fancy words and Say, well, I was, you know, just say, oh, I'm really sorry, I made a bad mistake, I lost my temper.
Speaker C:There's no excuse, I'll certainly pay for things, but I'm very sorry and I shouldn't have done it.
Speaker C:It's all you have to do.
Speaker C:People will forgive you for making a mistake, but they won't forgive you.
Speaker C:Is lying about it or not not taking accountability.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:You know, and I, O J Simpson, that's a different category.
Speaker C:But no, but he bet on baseball.
Speaker C:Did he bet against his own team?
Speaker C:No, but he got caught lying about it.
Speaker C:And you know, Jim Trestle, the Ohio State football coach, he covered up for his players selling some of the shoes they were getting for free.
Speaker C:It was nothing.
Speaker C:But because he lied about it, he got canned.
Speaker C:If they would have just said, oh, they made a mistake, this is terrible, I should have.
Speaker C:Just say you're sorry you made a mistake.
Speaker C:And people, people move on.
Speaker C:And that's, that's your media lesson for the day.
Speaker C:Just accept, take the accountability and ask for forgiveness.
Speaker B:Yeah, and I don't think people have a lot of.
Speaker B:Gimme room, to use a golf term there, Gary, because, you know, the guy wins the US Open and he gets a check for 2.9 million or whatever it was at that time.
Speaker B:You know, it's not all about money, but.
Speaker B:And you're, you're talking about the entitlement in that.
Speaker B:And they say, you know, a little humility would be kind of good, you know, I'm sorry, I made a mistake, I'll pay for the damages, blah, blah, blah, like that.
Speaker B:But people also go, didn't he, didn't he win 3 mil about 6 months ago or whatever, you know, he could pay for the new remodeling of the whole locker room type thing.
Speaker C:So, you know, golf, as you know, golf and tennis are two completely selfish games.
Speaker C:It's all about you all the time.
Speaker C:At least in other sports you're part of a team.
Speaker C:But I mean, admittedly, if you're a Ben Roethlisberger, if you're somebody who's going to play Major League baseball, you know, you've been the stud athlete in your town since age of seven, so you've gotten special treatment.
Speaker C:Everybody's kissed your butt all the way up.
Speaker C:Of course it goes to your head.
Speaker C:It's exceptional when there's a Cal Ripken or somebody in Major League Baseball who is reasonably normal and didn't go to his head because everybody's been bowing down to these guys since they were young and in Golf, it's all about you, what you shot today, all the time.
Speaker C:And you can see how that sense of entitlement.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:Expands and it goes, you know, and you're, you know, Phil Mickelson, he can hit any shot and this and that.
Speaker C:You have a great skill.
Speaker C:And it's hard to remember that people are only watching you.
Speaker C:They're not really watching golf because they want to see a guy hit a ball with a stick.
Speaker C:They want more.
Speaker C:They want entertainment.
Speaker C:They want to.
Speaker C:They want you to draw them in.
Speaker C:They want to see some emotion, and they want to see great shots and great scores.
Speaker C:But Tiger woods had everything.
Speaker C:The smile, the looks, he did all the theatrics.
Speaker C:People love that.
Speaker C:If you're Davis Love, and you always look like you smelled bad cheese, it takes a lot longer for people to get on your side, you know, Remember, you remember early 90s Fred Couples and Davis Love got good at the same time.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker C:Fred was an instant cult hero because the way he looked, he's cool, the way he acted, you know, and he had the.
Speaker C:The wife who jumped him the one time on the green.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Love is the country club guy doesn't have a wrinkle.
Speaker C:Always wearing baby, like baby blue, Carolina blue, but he just didn't smile.
Speaker C:And it's.
Speaker C:It's that.
Speaker C:It's that much, but it's all about them all the time, growing up.
Speaker C:And you can see why it goes to your head, because that's.
Speaker C:That's part of the game in golf.
Speaker C:You have to believe in yourself and have confidence.
Speaker C:So there's a fine line between knowing that you're arrogant and covering it up and being arrogant and not realizing, you.
Speaker B:Know, I'll say this real quick.
Speaker B:We got about 45 seconds before we go to break.
Speaker B:Gary, when you go to some of the events that I go to, which are celebrity pro ams, et cetera, et cetera, and you see some of the old sports guys that, I mean, they're out there, they're enjoying playing the game.
Speaker B:They, you know, they.
Speaker B:They love being on the course.
Speaker B:But you can always tell the guys that got a little extra butt kissing, because the humility really hasn't set in.
Speaker B:Maybe 20 years after they.
Speaker B:They ended their career, you can see that sometimes.
Speaker B:And other guys are just so humble and nice and take pictures with the fans, joke with them, all that.
Speaker B:And then some of them are just like the proverbial stick stuck.
Speaker B:We got to take a break.
Speaker B:We're going to be back with Gary Van Sickle right after this.
Speaker B:Hi, everybody.
Speaker B:It's JT and this is a special version of Grilling at the Green.
Speaker B:Grilling at the Green is brought to.
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Speaker B:Welcome back to Grilling at the Green.
Speaker B:I'm JT With Gary Van Sickle today.
Speaker B:He's gonna stick around, too, for after hours, because I got a couple of questions for him that he hasn't heard before.
Speaker B:So that'll be fun.
Speaker C:Jeff, let me ask you one question, because you mentioned the FedEx cup earlier.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Have you.
Speaker C:Have you ever been in a conversation where anybody, you know brought up the FedEx cup points at any time during the year and ever made any comment about the standings or the who's going to be close or.
Speaker C:The only conversation has always been about criticizing with the points.
Speaker C:Has anybody ever been interested in the actual points race?
Speaker C:Because I've never heard anybody once express interest in the standings or the points or anything.
Speaker B:I've never had anybody ask me.
Speaker B:I've had people ask me that were kind of new to the game, like, what is that?
Speaker C:What?
Speaker C:Yeah, what is that?
Speaker B:What is that?
Speaker B:But I've never had anybody, you know, where.
Speaker B:Where the four of us are playing or something.
Speaker B:They'll say, God, you know, Scheffler just smoked it last week, and now he's 4,000 points ahead.
Speaker B:Isn't that great?
Speaker C:Yeah, that.
Speaker B:That conversation never happens.
Speaker B:So anyway, you know, I think in.
Speaker C:That regard, the FedEx points have been a abject failure.
Speaker C:But they've got their name on a.
Speaker C:On a thing.
Speaker C:Everybody knows what FedEx cup points are.
Speaker C:So from a marketing standpoint, yeah, it's been great.
Speaker C:But from a golf standpoint, it really hasn't accomplished what they wanted.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:Well, I'll tell you one thing I miss is Steve Sands standing there on a chalkboard or a whiteboard, tried to do this, do the math and all this at.
Speaker B:He always gave the perception, and I don't know him, really, that he was the only one that understood what was going on.
Speaker B:You know, if Gary.
Speaker B: If Gary placed at, you know,: Speaker B:But if Jeff placed it 13 under or better, I would jump ahead of Gary and do this.
Speaker B:And then the square root of a Buick, you know, and that type of.
Speaker B:But I did.
Speaker B:That was always kind of entertaining to.
Speaker C:Me, so I always felt bad for him.
Speaker C:But I did a story with him once about all that, and he said his mom was a math teacher, so he was pretty good.
Speaker C:At math.
Speaker C:And he needed it because he really had to do all that.
Speaker C:What was dumb back then was if somebody makes a birdie, that changes their point total, and it changes everybody's point total because now he's tied for 13th, and now he gets this and you get.
Speaker C:So it was a Rubik's cube.
Speaker C:It was always moving, and there was.
Speaker C:There was no way anybody could follow along at home.
Speaker C:And that's why they had Steve Sands.
Speaker C:And it's amazing.
Speaker C:I'm sure he had some guys helping him, but he was very proud that he never made a blatant math error on the air.
Speaker C:So I, And I said, well, that is.
Speaker C:That is a feat.
Speaker C:You should be proud.
Speaker B:Yeah, he should.
Speaker C:That was not the way to go.
Speaker C:The one year BJ won, the FedEx cop clinched it after St. Louis, and he left town without speaking to the media.
Speaker C:He didn't win.
Speaker C:He.
Speaker C:Wherever he finished, clinched it.
Speaker B:He.
Speaker C:He wouldn't even had to show up the last week, or he had to show up at.
Speaker C:Not get hit by a meteor.
Speaker C:And nobody knew he won.
Speaker C:And then an hour later, like, oh, vj's already clinched it and he's gone.
Speaker C:So that's one of the many years they had to adjust the point.
Speaker C:So I, you know, the format.
Speaker C:I liked it when they at least went to these starting strokes, as they called it, when everybody had a staggered start.
Speaker C:At least you knew what the scores were and you didn't.
Speaker C:Steve Sands didn't have to erase the numbers.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:It was crazy for somebody to.
Speaker C:How do you handicap these guys?
Speaker C:So.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:But I always thought, if you're playing for 10 million or whatever, isn't that good enough?
Speaker C:Why couldn't the 30 guys just go like a normal tournament and go from there?
Speaker C:And, well, that's where we finally are.
Speaker C:I think the problem is there's so much money in golf.
Speaker C:Does this money even.
Speaker C:Does playing for money matters?
Speaker C:I mean, not to the top guys, but is that enough of a incentive for the fan to get interested?
Speaker C:I, you know, it's another golf tournament.
Speaker C:It's 30 guys, so it should be 30 guys, you know, but it's certainly the best, I think, thing they've come up with so far, given that TV has never wanted any part of match play or anything like that because they can't guarantee how long the match will go, and they're deathly afraid of having an hour of dead air if somebody wins 8 and 7.
Speaker C:So I think now is the best one they've got.
Speaker C:And I don't know why they couldn't have gone to it sooner?
Speaker C:But.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:But I still miss Sands because I can see that.
Speaker B:I could just see the guys in the.
Speaker B:In the.
Speaker B:Like in the announcer's booth or something.
Speaker B:One Nance or somebody was always talking to him.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But the other, the color guys on the side.
Speaker B:I could just see him like.
Speaker C:Like that.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:Well.
Speaker C:And for a while there, we had two winners.
Speaker C:Somebody won the Tour Championship.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And somebody else won the FedEx, like the year Bill Haas got up and down out of the.
Speaker C:Out of the lake, I think, in the playoff and beat.
Speaker C:I forget who he beat now.
Speaker C:And he gets done and they go to interview him and he goes, yeah, congratulations, Bill.
Speaker C:And he.
Speaker C:Or the commissioner's handing him a thing.
Speaker C:And he goes, bill Hoskoes.
Speaker C:Well, who won the FedEx Cup?
Speaker C:Oh, you did.
Speaker C:He goes, oh, I did.
Speaker C:That was the greatest FedEx cup moment in my book right there.
Speaker C:He didn't know he won because it was so complicated.
Speaker C:So they finally got it right, given the system, this points thing, you know, the challenge is to get.
Speaker C:Make the top 30, and then you're in the big event.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Now, is anybody going to lose sleep over the guys who were 31 and 32 who don't make it or cut down this first week from 70 to 50?
Speaker C:Do you care if Ben on gets in or not gets in?
Speaker C:You know, but they're playing for something, and it.
Speaker C:On the appearance there is meeting to it.
Speaker C:So I think it's the best system they've had so far.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, I'm.
Speaker B:I'm with it.
Speaker B:But like you said at the top, nobody's ever asked me, like.
Speaker C:Yeah, I didn't think so, but I was just curious.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, anyway, we're out of time on the regular show.
Speaker C:Gary.
Speaker C:No.
Speaker B:Oh, it's terrible.
Speaker B:It's terrible.
Speaker B:Don't forget, Gary still writes for SI.
Speaker B:He's.
Speaker B:What is the name of that?
Speaker C:SI.com.
Speaker C:the first call.
Speaker B:Yeah, first call I signed up for that.
Speaker C:The Golf Travel Wire.
Speaker C:I had a one or two stories on the Golf Travel Wire, which is once a week.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:You can sign up for.
Speaker C:It's a couple travel stories.
Speaker C:I found a golf course in the middle of the Mississippi river in Rock Island, Illinois, on an island that is a U.S. army arsenal.
Speaker C: d they had a golf course from: Speaker C:And it's now open again.
Speaker C:So I did a story about that.
Speaker C:But who thinks you're going to play golf in on an island in the Mississippi River.
Speaker C:So I thought that was, that was a cool spot.
Speaker B:Is there any leftover ordinance that like if you hit OB you might get a surprise?
Speaker C:It's not, they just make it, they don't use it.
Speaker C:But it is, it's a, it's a, not a real big island, but you wouldn't believe all the buildings the army has on it.
Speaker C:It's like a major, major base.
Speaker C:It was really and a lot of security just to play golf.
Speaker C:You got to stop and fell in a bunch of forms and sign away your firstborn to get on the course.
Speaker C:And the course is, it needs some work.
Speaker C:It's just barely back.
Speaker C:So if you're in Rock Island, Illinois, check it out.
Speaker C:It's the Rock Island Arsenal Golf Course.
Speaker B:There you go, Gary.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:Gary is going to stick around for after hours.
Speaker B:That's it for us.
Speaker B:Don't forget we're part of Golf Newsnet and number of radio stations here in the northwest and in Texas, etc.
Speaker B:And all the platforms, the pods.
Speaker B:So until next time, Gary, thank you and everybody, thank you for listening.
Speaker B:Go out, play some golf, have some fun.
Speaker B:Take care.
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